Speak Up

Yes, it is me again. I would like to pose a few points about this large issue.
About the "religions" deciding wether or not we have the right to have homosexual marrages would be a violation of church and state. That's if you are talking about if they make the law, I mean. Now this issue, seperation of church and state, by it's self is also a seperet issue, so I won't go into detail about that.

I do have a question about the tax breaks you mentioned. Did you mean this: homosexual couples should have more tax breaks than heterosexual couples? or that they also (if defined as a married couple) should have tax breaks as do some (not all) heterosexual couples have?

When it comes to haveing the religions decide on weather or not to marry homosexual couples, I would like to say this: being married by a preacher is something that is sanctified by God, right? Well, if God says it's wrong, how can a preacher declare them married? This question also poses another question: are churches preaching on the Bible? The bible clearly tells us what is right and wrong, but some, (not all) churches declare the book of God to be plainly wrong. What power do they have to say this?

Yet I do understand that you can be legaly married, with out a church. Like if you go to a courthouse and get married.

i do not feel homosexuals should have a single extra tax break that heterosexual couples have, i think that we deserve to be treated on the same level as heterosexual couples, to be qualified for the same tax breaks, to be treated as equals. I also think we deserve the same hospital visitation rights as a heterosexual couple. And aside from christian religions, there are other religious groups out there that currently bless homosexual unions, even if their blessing isn't valid in the eyes of the state. I refuse to let this degrade into an arguement about the validity of any of the following religions, but pretty much every branch of paganism sanctions gay marriage, at least two branches of judiasm, and unitarian universalists all bless gay unions. Not all religions are based off the bible, so they do not use the bible as guidence, and the marriage of homosexuals is not an affront to what ever deity said group worships. Also, i feel that reilgions can discriminate for marriage if they so choose, but the government should grant marriage rights equally, not just to a select group of people.

SARCASM
Yay! Soon I'll be able to marry my sister and/or my brother! Maybe even my cat too!
/SARCASM

Pro-same-sex-marriage (oops - is the correct term 'pro-choice' like in regard to abortion, "I don't support SSM but I support homosexuals being able to choose to get married") people claim they support equal marriage rights but if the government passed something like that I bet they would disagree with it. Tradition isn't overrated it is actually underrated, our country has been running fine in the past, if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

And I still need someone from group 3 to contact me! Email is gard0228@umn.edu

I'd prefer it if you not mock me, i'm not going around making fun of you and the way your life works.

O.k. why would you marry your cat? Thats just weird. I believe that gays should be aloud to marry someone that they care about. If you find someone that you are attracted to, you can’t help it. That person could be male or female it doesn’t mean that it is wrong. If a straight person felt something deep inside for the opposite sex you wouldn’t find any thing wrong with it, so why is it wrong it the person is of the same gender?

Okay, lets clarify some issues here:

When a couple wants to get married in the state of Minnesota, here is the procedure:

1) They go to the local court house, fill out the application for a Marriage License and pay $85.00. The application requires them to show ID, etc, and there is a specific statute that says: "One of the applicants must be a man and the other a woman."

2) After the five day waiting period, they go back and pick up their license. It is valid for 6 months and only in the state of Minnesota.

3) They then take the license to someone who has filed Credentials of Ordination or Credentials of Licensing with the state of Minnesota - they can be ordained by any religious organization christian, jewish, pagan, what have you - or to a Judge. This person then performs a marriage ceremony - the contant of which is left up to the couple and the person marrying them - or in the case of a Judge a Civil Marriage Ceremony and the marriage license if filled out completely.

4) The filled out Marriage License is then returned to the state, which then issues the couple a Marriage Certificate to the couple.

What this means:

The state must issue Marriage Licenses to every couple who meets the basic criteria that they are not already married to someone else, and that they are "a man and the other a woman."

Ordained people and their religious organizations have the right to refuse to perform Marriage Ceremonies for any reason.

This is how churchs and the state remain seperate while still recognizing the vital role of religious organizations in performing marriages, and giving non-religious people the option to marry secularly - through a judge in a Civil Marriage.

I hope this clarifies what the process is in Minnesota.

A few more thoughts.

What the advocates of Gay marriage are asking for is quite simple. They are asking for the statement that the applicants be "a man and the other a woman" to be taken out. This change would not affect state law already prohibiting the marriage of close relatives, nor would it affect state laws prohibiting the marriage of minors without parental consent. And if people were really concerned about the potential for bestial marriages, they could add "Both applicants must be human beings."

If such a change were made, gay and lesbian married couples would then be eligible for the same benifits that straight married couples have - no more and no less.

This is really about about including gay and lesbian couples into the existing marriage system - not giving them special rights.

And religious organizations have nothing to fear. They still have the right to refuse to marry anyone for any reason and could not be compelled to marry gays and lesbians.

The argument that marriage is only for bearing children does not hold water either. The state currently issues Marriage Licenses to any heterosexual couple, regardless of whether they plan to have children. And if a religion wants to require a couple to swear to have children as a precondition to marrying them, they have that right.

To those of you who argue that the social fabric of our country will be destroyed by legalizing gay marriage, I can only say that you are ignoring reality. There are already hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of gay and lesbian couples in America. They are our classmates, our co-workers, and our neighbors. Most are not destroying our social fabric - they are building it - by creating household economies, home ownership, and, in some cases, families. Many of our gay and lesbian neighbors are already married - all they need is the legal recognition.

Now that you've got me going, here are few thoughts on tradition.

As snotty and immature as his comment was, in some sense, I agree with Joel that tradition is often under-rated these days in America.

I believe that tradition should be our starting place. We should look at what has been done before and figure out what works and what does not as informed by our values. We can then modify those elements that are not working while retaining those that do.

The cultural problem I see in America is that we tend to gravitate unthinkingly toward that which is new and "bigger and better". The latest TV's, stereos, computers, tractors, people, fashions, songs, and movies. As young people, we tend not to stop and look around and appreciate the people and land we grew up with, the ways that our parents and grandparents did things, the old songs, and history itself, especially local history. I think that doing so is key to a rich human experience and to cultural continuity. I feel these days that we tend to live in a historical vacuum - no past and possibly no future.

But simultaneously, we must remain critical. The fact is that Joel was wrong - our country was not "running fine in the past." Slavery and racial bigotry were American traditions. So was the extermination of North America's indigenous people. So was, and is, rampant homophobia.

Clearly, "traditional" things are not always right, but that does not mean we should abandon all ties with the past and embrace a "hip" commercialized present. Despite their racism, I appreciate my relatives' genuine concern for and commitment to family, and their willingness to help one another out. And I strive to preserve that tradition - without the racism.

Seen in this way, it is obvious that many gay and lesbians are actually rather traditional - they just want to get married like everyone else.

PLEASE IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS WRITE ME.

LILLULU89@HOTMAIL.COM

I FEEL GAYS AND LESBIANS ARE WRONG AND THAT BEING THAT WAY IS NOT RIGHT. NOW SEE IM A GOD FEARING CHRISTIAN AND THOSE ARE ME BELIEFS.AND I SURE HOPE YOU PICKED THE RIGHT THINGS TO BELIEVE IN CAUSE THERES ONLY ONE WAY TO GET TO HEAVEN. IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS GOD TOOK A RIB OUT OF ADAM AND MADE EVE,AND EVE HAD A SON,THEN ANTOHER SON. IT DID NOT SAY GOD TOOK A RIB OUT OF ADAM AND MADE STEVE,AND STEVE HAD A CHILD THEN ANOTHER CHILD. I COULD GO ON AND ON,BUT THATS JUST A LITTLE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

Excuse me, but your comments are way out of line. First off, writing ALL IN CAPS is not only rude, it is distracting and takes away from your point. Second off, you've done a poor job taking audience into consideration. This is a poltical blog, and your post has nothing to do with politics. Not only that, but you insult the author of this post (Me) by saying that i am wrong. You have no proof that i am wrong, just as I have no proof that I am right. On a side note, isn't that passing judgement on me,and doesn't the bible talk about how it is wrong to pass judgement? Also, doesn't the bible say God loves everyone, and that everyone is a sinner? Are some sins greater than others? I just thought that would be something that YOU should think about.

i think being gay is gay

Matt...how can you say that...that is rather insulting...what a dumb ass inconsiderate thing to say...I wish i could say more but I am afraid I would tear you down from the tall tree you are to nothing but a rotten stump...please be more considerate...have an open mind...