CI 5155 Group Discussion Blog

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Thank you , Sally! See you guys tonight

Amy

Ok. I'll print out the questions along with our outline for reference.
I'll be busy at a conference for most of the day tomorrow but I do have a break between 9-11 to check emails.
Otherwise, see you tomorrow!
Sally


Actually, here is a revised grouping of the questions, let's use this document instead for tomorrow's lesson.

Amy


Ok guys

I emailed Zac and asked him to please bring the markers and posters for us tomorrow night. I attached the list of questions we have that we can pass out for discussion 1 and 2. I am thinking that might be enough discussion groups, and maybe the only other thing we should do is to use "all the articles" to create a pro and con list and then have a large group discussion to end?

I do not have access to a printer, do either of you? The pages will need to be printed and cut. Let me know what you two think.

Amy


Sally and Amy,

I like starting with:

For the whole group: Start with a discussion about No Standards Without Freedom and Test Today, Privatize Tomorrow. (The former is referenced in the latter.) Discuss at your table these questions:
Some questions I've come up with so far:
NSWF: Describe "freedom" in terms of this article. How are the democrats denying it?
What does it mean that republicans are the party of education's consumers, while Democrats are joined at the hip to its producers.
TT,PT:What does Kohn mean by "Test Today, Privatize Tomorrow?"
How does Kohn describe the right's spin on freedom? p.84
What is the collateral damage, the danger of NCLB? pp. 90-92

Then maybe put up large posters for a pro-con list of "pro vouchers" and "public education" (names can be changed). These posters can be added to throughout the discussion in the classroom. We could choose to start with "pro vouchers" and lead into Friedman discussion with groups answering:

Public Schools, Make them Private:
1) What would a radical reconstruction look like? (see paragraphs 2-4)
2) How are teacher's unions affecting the education system? (see paragraphs 5, 8)
3) Do you think the power of the school system should be centralized or de-centralized? (paragraph 6)
4) How does the author believe the voucher system should work? Are there any changes you would make? (paragraphs 24-28)

also, sally I think your comment,

In Friedman's argument, he never has made clear who exactly the entrepreneurs/private enterprises are that will run these private schools. I'm not sure if that would fit into a discussion, but it's something I wonder about.

can be answered with Lipmans article about Venture Philanthropy. That might be a lead into a Lipman discussion. I am not sure how to get the groups to share what they read. I know we discussed having them make posters that summarized the main points of each article, but I am not sure on doing two sets of posters. Maybe we can split the groups into the sections they read and have them add 2-3 pro's to the "public education" based on what they read and explain it to the class.

How to fit Kumashiro is still a question mark for me.

Lastly, it might be interesting to just list the pro's on the poster boards from the viewpoint of the group that is for each "system of education" then at the end of the lesson try and argue which pro's are really cons for education as a whole but just masked with language. I think some pro's for one side are going to be cons for the other side. It might be nice to try and give the class some arguments on why the voucher system is bad for education and maybe what parts of it might be good.


chad

I like your questions for No Standards Without Freedom better than the ones I came up with.

Maybe the pro-con list doesn't come out of the Lipman discussion; but rather, it's a wrap up of everything. We want to have each article presented for the half of the class that didn't read it. Maybe this way for the Venture Philanthropy article
Group1, Kenneth, Susan and Grace, presents Small Schools and Academy for Urban School Leadership
Group 2, Stella, Kirk and Bethany, presents Parent Organizing and Student Organizing

I'm not sure what to have the other groups discuss. Those articles are great but they are so dense that it's hard to pick apart what points to portray.

Sally


Here are some initial questions I came up with for a couple of the articles:

No Standards Without Freedom:
1) Who are the consumers of education? The producers?
2) What are some advantages of freedom with standards? Are there any disadvantages? If so, what are they?

Public Schools, Make them Private:
1) What would a radical reconstruction look like? (see paragraphs 2-4)
2) How are teacher's unions affecting the education system? (see paragraphs 5, 8)
3) Do you think the power of the school system should be centralized or de-centralized? (paragraph 6)
4) How does the author believe the voucher system should work? Are there any changes you would make? (paragraphs 24-28)

I put the paragraphs for you two to reference. I like the outline you have so far, Sally, for the lesson. Do we want to consolidate the questions and print them out for the groups? Also, how would the grouping for creating a pro/con list of the Lipman article work, as people only read half of the article. Would we group together people who read the first with some people who read the second part? Are we going to have them create a list on a poster style paper and have a sharing out at the end? If so, we should probably email Zac to bring the necessary supplies for us.

Amy

Sally,

Great ideas! I will be able to spend a lot of time on this tomorrow, and I will send some feedback. I can also send the questions I have come up with thus far, as well as additional questions. I agree that we can allow time for everyone to discuss the questions, and not talk as much ourselves.

Talk to you soon,
Amy

Here are some more thoughts.

Star with some sort of introduction...

For the whole group: Start with a discussion about No Standards Without Freedom and Test Today, Privatize Tomorrow. (The former is referenced in the latter.) Discuss at your table these questions:
Some questions I've come up with so far:
NSWF: Describe "freedom" in terms of this article. How are the democrats denying it?
What does it mean that republicans are the party of education's consumers, while Democrats are joined at the hip to its producers.
TT,PT:What does Kohn mean by "Test Today, Privatize Tomorrow?"
How does Kohn describe the right's spin on freedom? p.84
What is the collateral damage, the danger of NCLB? pp. 90-92

I'm not sure how to work the Friedman and Kumasihiro articles in, but I did come up with some questions.

Kumashiro: How are family values and education related, and what are the four frames that result from the relationship? -top of p. 35
What is the problem with the presumptions of the right with respect to NCLB? Answer: For it to be successful, it reuires all students enter school on a level playing field. -bottom of p. 37

In Friedman's argument, he never has made clear who exactly the entrepreneurs/private enterprises are that will run these private schools. I'm not sure if that would fit into a discussion, but it's something I wonder about.

Then maybe do what I suggested before about the pro/con lists for the Lippman articles, or just break into four groups with some guiding questions. Focus on the sentence spanning 118-119, about venture philanthropies using school reform to reshape cities, and the similar argument against charter schools on p. 125, that the movement is related to the country's disinvestment in communities of color.

I know that's a long list of questions. I think the weakest part of last week's lessons was the first part having too many questions and too little time to answer them, but the did also talk quite a bit and have that video so that left little discussion time. We don't have to talk so much ourselves.

Sally


I have come up with some questions too, and I should be able to spend more time on it this weekend.

I still like the idea of an informal debate. It could be in the format of making pro/con lists instead of an outright debate. For example, we divided the class into two groups based on the Lippman articles. We could further divide the groups and have them summarize the articles either pro or con with respect to vouchers and privatizing. For example, one group would summarize the Venture Philanthropy article as it stands, with its criticism of corporations heavily influencing the schools. Then the other group would summarize it with Friedman in mind, arguing why what is described is a good thing. Does that make sense? It may end up making it harder on one group, but if we're considering it a debate that's the standard format--find arguments to support your side whether you believe in them or not.

Then we could have a more general discussion questions on the rest of the readings.

Feel free to shoot this idea down if you don't like it.

Sally

I have created a few questions for a few of the articles. What are you guys thinking as far as the type of lesson we want to teach? I think the discussion type lesson worked well last night. Any thoughts?

Amy

I like that! That would help initiate discussion.

Amy

Nov 30

to me, Charles
Just had a quick idea and I wanted to get it recorded before it slipped my mind. If we decide to go a different route than a debate, we could have each person/group come up with pro and con lists for vouchers and privatizing. My feeling that most if not all are on the con side, but as I was reading Friedman I could see how some people would agree with his ideas.

Sally


11/27/12

How is venture philanthropy affecting the lives of primarily low-income working class people of color (Lipman)?
How does empowerment/choice tie into venture philanthropy? What connections can we make?

Two groups - read in a different order.


On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Nowariak, Charles wrote:

Sorry I forgot to include the links of the two new articles I introduced

http://www.freedomworks.org/publications/no-standards-without-freedom

http://www.edchoice.org/The-Friedmans/The-Friedmans-on-School-Choice/Why-America-Needs-School-Vouchers.aspx


Test Today looks good, as well as the pages Chad referenced from the Seduction of Common Sense. The Lipman article has some great stuff about the Venture philanthropy that's pretty interesting. I think the one page article that is pro-vouchers might be good if we are running tight on space. I guess we have some decisions to make!

Amy


Nov 26

Here is what I like from the readings.

1.) Like Sally, I like all of the Test Today, Privatize tomorrow. (15 pages)
2.) I also like The Seduction of Common Sense pages 32-38 only. (about 6 pages)
3.) I also like Pauline Lipmans Choice and empowerment chapter pages 121-132. (about 12 pages).
4.) As of Milton Friedman, I agree with Sally on starting with the 1995 Friedman article. Also, there is one more article by Friedman that I liked. It is called "Why America Needs School Vouchers".
5.) Another article that I liked for pro-vouchers is called "No Standards Without Freedom". It is one page and has some sexiness to it.

Sally, I am confused on what you mean by assigning each person one of the four Gates projects to read? Can you explain? Are they from the Venture Philanthropy chapter from Lipman?

Thanks and happy paper writing!

chad

Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 10:44 PM
To: Amy Loar
Cc: Nowariak, Charles
Subject: Re: Business Model Group


I have been doing some reading today and am starting to get some ideas for our lesson. Here's one possible path, though I am open to other ideas.

Start with the 1995 Friedman article for background. Of the other articles I like Test Today, Privatize tomorrow and Venture Philanthropy. The latter is really good, but also long/dense. I was thinking about assigning each person one of the four Gates projects to read, along with all of the rest of the article.

Due to lack of time, I only read the beginning of Lipman's charter school article. It seems like it's a good one too but maybe too long when combined with venture philanthropy, unless we want to assign each to half of the class.

Just some early thoughts...

Sally

Nov 5

Thanks for doing the reading, Amy!

I have an article from the Watkins book called "Test today, privatize tomorrow" which I think is worth considering. I'll have Zac make a pdf so you can look it over. I think it us a good start for finding a counterpoint to Friedman's article.
Sally



Nov 4

Sally and Chad,

I just wanted to update you on what I had found in the book The Seduction of Common Sense. There are about five pages in chapter 2 (The Power of Frames) that discuss the roles of the right and the left, and how both are framed around a certain family role (the right being the strict father and the left being the nurturing parent). Next, it lays out neoliberalism and provides a brief historical context of how neoliberalism came about. I believe it gives the reader a good idea of where neoliberalism came from and how it advances the pro-business agenda. The chapter also provides some insight into real life examples of how neoliberalism is being played out in today's society which I think could be useful for the debate.

I have been thinking about the structure of our lesson and I believe that we will need to provide some historical context, which I would be willing to do. Would we want to focus mainly on the idea of school vouchers? I can possibly put it into a power point if you think that would be a good idea.

Let me know where you both are at! I hope your weekend is going well!

Amy

10/16/12

Link to Zac's journal article:
http://www.jceps.com/index.php?pageID=article&articleID=225

Group Notes:
Discussed presenting the history of vouchers to the class before having them debate the two current opposing views for the voucher system.
Due November 27th: Need to find a text that provides overview of the history of the voucher system and also two texts to assign to the class that have the two different views of.
Check U of M library online resources

Text ideas (that Zac will bring to next week's class):
Kumashiro - The Seduction of Common Sense - http://store.tcpress.com/0807748684.shtml (Sally)
Watkins - The Assault on Education - http://www.amazon.com/The-Assault-Public-Education-Confronting/dp/0807752541 (Sally)

Current works to look at:
Diane Ravitch - switched views (Chad)
Dinesh D'Souza (Chad)
Heritage Foundation (Amy)
CATO Institute (Amy)
Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (Amy)

Questions to answer:
How does it benefit the student's learning?
Is it about efficiency or the student?
Does most efficient equal what's best for the student/where is the balance?


It works


It works!
Sally


Sally and Chad,

Just checking email addresses! Let me know if you get this.

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This page contains a single entry by loarx003 published on December 11, 2012 9:32 PM.

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