WS 3371 Fall 2007

In contrast with the foundation narratives, the counter narratives really attacked the railroads. From our previous readings, I got the impression that railroads built the west. Where there was a railroad station, a prosperous city with a flourishing economy popped up. The counter narrative said how unfair the railroad treated people. Before they were even built they took away the right of land from settlers and when they sold it they jacked up the prices. Where there was more competition of other railroads, prices were almost doubled and it continued like this because people relied so heavily on the transportation to distribute products. It seems like the railroad corporations were as heartless and made of steal just as the railroad cars. It was a technology set out to profit for itself first and foremost. Those lucky to be positively effected gained but many had to deal with non-standardized costs for land and transportation, the reckless workers or, if you were employed by the RR, the wages and bad working conditions, and the horrible effects brought on the environment.

It was interesting to read about the negative issues brought up by the counter-narrative and then remembering how the dominant narrative of the time spun those. An example from the counter-narrative is how the railroads changed settlement and expansion “from an individualistic process to a centralized corporate practice.” It was interesting to see that the term “soulless corporation” was first in regard to the railroads. You can still find that term used today so it sort of shows this long history of Americans (or at least a portion) not trusting big business or the faceless corporation. But I think the dominant narrative (and probably the railroad companies) did a really good job of spinning it to their benefit. Railroads didn’t stop the pioneer from settling in the west, they made it possible for the pioneers to settle the west faster. Also, the dominant narrative conveniently glosses over the environmental impacts of the trains. According to it, it completed the landscape. But when you think about it, setting prairie fires and covering the areas surrounding the tracks in soot is not an improvement in any sense. So more than anything, I’m impressed by the railroad companies’ damage control and PR, they must have been top-notch.

It is absolutely amazing how drastically different chapter 7 is from chapter 8. I never imagined that so much damage could be done to people and the environment. A railroad seems so distant and such a desolate place that I never thought it could be harmful. I never thought that millions of acres would be needed to build the rail tracks, and so much corruption could have occurred. Of course I think this now because most of the rail lines are no longer in existence and those that are still around for the most part are nowhere near any populated area. I didn’t know that rail companies were granted land to build new tracks. Even without reading the chapter if something like that had been proposed to me as a senator or as someone that had the power to make such decisions I would have laughed in their face. I do not understand the logic behind this enactment. Maybe someone was getting something in return that history didn’t record. Seems as though the settlement of people would have proceeded just fine without the railroad, as it did in the past. Also, if railroad companies want to build rail then let them build it. It seems like they were doing the government a favour for building and needed some extra incentive to build. It boggles my mind.

I too thought it was very interesting how different the two chapters were. It is amazing to see how drastically attitudes can change due to a certain invention or new technology. At first people were very interested in the railroad and all of the great things that would be associated with it. They were optimistic about all of the improvements that would come along with the railroads and the increased ability for transporting goods. However, that attitude changed drastically throughout chapter 8. People had become angry and dissatisfied with the railway system. They were angry about all the corruption and destruction that the railroad created. Hundreds of acres of land were consumed to create these massive railways and people began to take notice of this, and became opposed to the railway systems in a sense. I really enjoyed the quote by Emerson on page 176 that said “the age has an engine, but no engineer.” This reminded me of what we had discussed earlier about the education of the railroad craftsmen. The people who were constructing these railway systems had the drive or the “engine” but there was no one really in charge of the project, there was no “engineer” to oversee how this project was being put together. There were few regulations on construction and people were so excited about what the development of the railroads would bring that they did not initially see the destruction that this was having on the land. It is also a bit humorous to see that some things have not changed much since the time of the railroad development. People today are still jumping into things quickly because they are overwhelmed with excitement, but they are not stopping to take time to think about what effects their choices will have on the land in the future. Only when they are able to see the destruction and have remorse about their actions are they outraged and it occurs to them that they should have thought things through all the way.

This counter-narrative really showed the negative aspects of the railroad. Railroad companies turned into monopolies; these companies cheated the pioneer; the Native American’s suffered because of the railroad expansion; buffalo herds nearly went extinct, and trains generated a lot of pollution in cities. I believe that the reason the railroad companies turned into monopolies was because of the lack of government intervention. At the time, governmental policy was not established to control these large companies. However, even though all these negative events occurred, railroads still brought progress to America. I honestly believe that the railroads brought many more advantages than disadvantages to America. I would also like to argue that railroads did assist in western development. Look at today’s population: most of the populated areas are on the coasts! Railroads were the first thing to link the east and west coast. Finally, I had one question concerning land grants… were the land grants that the government gave to railroad companies the same type of land grant that the land grant universities received??

I thought the most interesting thing about this chapter was towards the beginning when Nye talked about how the railroads forced people off their lands. I had no idea that this system of buying and selling land illegally even happened during this time. To make matters worse, it seemed that the government was always taking sides with the big railroad companies. It reminds me of the big businesses always winning, no matter what the costs to the people underneath them.

I also think it is quite interesting that Nye (through Henry George) points out that if the government had just owned the railroads from the beginning, they would not only make more money, but also be in charge of the rail systems and how people who bought land around this area were treated. This would have stopped these monopolies from being created, and I think, ultimately distribute wealth a little better within the economy.

I absolutely agree with the everyone here. Monday we were all speaking on the positive effects of implementing the railroad system. Today we're discussing how destructive the railroad system was. I found it especially interesting that Thoreau described the railroad as a "cut in the landscape." Nye also notes how poorly ventilated and smoky the cabins were. I will say that with every new piece of technology, there will be some glitches. I think it would been appropriate for the people to be more patient with it since it was new. But as I think about it, I realize that I would probably be the same way. When I purchase something new, I definitely want it to be up to par.

After reading Thoreau's "Sounds," I have a pleasant new view on trains.... well not really. But I never imagined something like a train could sound so elegant. Thoreau talks as if trains were some heavenly creature/machine, something you would perceive to be to good to be true, or a fantasy. The train basically became one with nature. I find it hard for myself to try and describe any of the technologies we use today (the cell phone, computer, etc) in the same way Thoreau does with the train.

I find it surprising that there is such a strong counter narrative for the transportation revolution. Chapter 7 made it seem like the train was the divine route to the settlement of America. But, so many bad things seem to be connected to the train. But how can an physical object be responsible for anything? Dose fault not lie in the greed of people. When a railroad was planed to be built and people rushed in to buy up the land driving land taxes and prices up, is that the railroads fault. It is human nature to put personal advancement before the good of all; though this is not true for everyone it is true. I feel much of the detriment, that was perceived to be caused by the transportation revolution was in truth, caused by the faults of mans own nature.

The railroads do span much of the country but it does not cover most of it. How can there have been any extensive effects on the ecosystem. Maybe the resources used and consumed in the construction where the cause of the damage.

As I read chapter 8, I too found the negative effects of the expanding railroad very interesting. What I found to be really surreal was that the railroad companies seemed to be unstoppable. On page 187, it says that “State and local authorities found it extremely difficult to exercise control over railroad corporations.” This really puts the power of the railroad into perspective. They were almost uncontrollable by the government, they could make or break a town and pollute the air as much as they wanted. It is very hard for me to imagine a company that has that kind of power today, and I believe because of the railroad, no company will ever have that sort of power. The railroad brought us to the west, and it also brought tougher government regulations. The controversial story of railroad makes it more interesting, and American.

As most others, I really enjoyed going to the Bell Museum as well. One thing that I noticed was that many of the animals were posed in positions that we, or at least I, expect to see them in. For example, the black bears, the lynx, and the coyotes were all posed in predatory stances. These are animals that we are accustomed to seeing as predators. In contrast, I noticed that many of the birds and other traditionally “non-predatory” types were generally posed with either eggs or members of their litter. I think that this distinction between predator and prey is a large part of how we identify with animals. As humans, we feel compassion for those considered the “underdog,” while at the same time can identify with predators because we are the greatest predators on the planet. I think the balance between which one we feel for more is up to the emotional balance of the individual. Some of us feel sorry for the prey when it is caught, while others accept it as necessary and applaud the predator.

I am glad that we have the Bell Museum on campus. I had to make up the field trip and when I was there today I had to have been the only non-employee in the building. It made me feel like it just was not appreciated. I have to admit that I had never given it a second thought myself, but after seeing the displays I appreciate it much more than I had before. It offered me a view of many animals that I had never before seen. I think it is important that we keep museums like these available to the public.

I thought it was interesting how so many people became turned off by the idea of railroads and steamboats so quickly. It seems like they were just getting popular and then everyone started finding more and more reasons to reject them as modes of transportation. Although they did cost a lot of money to make and maintain, their purpose helped give many people jobs and places to live. I’m not saying that these people were unjust in their criticism, but the ideas behind steamboats and trains held greater implications than satisfying transportation needs. By better connecting the nation trains and steamboats created a better place for many to live.

I also found it interesting that many people started to turn sour to the idea of using steamboats and trains as a means of transportation because of a lack of comfort. This complaint directly relates to our transportation problems of today as well. Many of us are unwilling to take public transportation because of discomfort and inconvenience. Not much has changed from the ideas Nye writes about in the 19th century and today. Busses and light rail cars are still crowded, but one main difference is that our roads are also just as crowded. I wonder if many people in the mid-19th century thought of roads as the end of all the “insufferable” discomfort that a steamboat or a train car brought. Being crowded is something that we have had to get used to as being members of this society. From where I stand it seems like we had all get a little better acquainted, because it is clear that as populations rise so too will the numbers in need of transportation.

I wasn't aware before these chapters and our class discussion that railroads were such a controversial issue. I suppose it was the first kind of "public works" that took away people's land. It also seems that the Railroad companies held a general disrespect for anybody else but themselves. It seems that even though people turned to railroads for comfort they got less than they expected,and the utility cost of the railroad was much much higher.

I hadn't thought about the negative impact that railroads had on their employees until after reading chapter 8. The railroads not only hurt nature, they were responsible for the suffering of many people, nearly all (Native Americans, settlers, workers, eventually the middle class). When power such as that of the railroad companies is in the hands of only a few the results for the remaining majority usually do not hold much promise.

It is interesting that early on in the development of railroads people recognized that they were not good for the environment. And more interesting still that we have continued to progress toward more environmentally damaging technologies despite the awareness of the harm that we are doing.

I never thought about the railroad being one of Americas first large and powerful companies, but it makes a lot of sense. The quick change in technology from roads and canals to trains & tracks had a huge impact on everything. Those that were lucky enough to be part of the railroad and its money were in a powerful position. I saw the new movie _310 to Yuma_ a couple of weeks ago, and I noticed that the railroad men had as much power as the sheriffs and marshals. Unfortunately for those not lucky enough to be a business person at the time, it was easy to take advantage of landowners in the name of a good deal.
The railroad didn't even want to spend money to clear the vegetation away from the area around the tracks, which caused many needless fires. Its weird to imagine how the choices of a few railroad business men decided which cities would fall and which ones were successful; successful enough to be some of the biggest cities around today.

I absolutely love reading these counter narratives. I am happy to see that the American people are not always blindly led into any idea that a big corporation has to offer. Even if these counter narratives are the story of the ones whom didn’t end up on top I still think it is important that they are acknowledged. Obviously the train system made a huge impact on our society and probably how we live life today but there are positives and negatives to all advancements in technology that we make.
I think it is understandable that Americans of this time were suspicious of big ‘faceless’ corporations. No one was there to take full responsibility for how the environment was being decimated. No one cared about how small farmers and land owners were being treated. This skepticism is still in our society today. Even though big companies usually prevail over smaller companies and individual citizens, it is still vital that we are continually questioning.

“Sounds” is interesting in that Thoreau lived by himself in the woods for years near a pond and heard many sounds. He talked of hearing many different wild animals. He lived with undisturbed nature. The railroad came through his area when he was living there and he talked of hearing that. He didn’t really describe the sounds of the train as unpleasant but did say how the woods sounded when a train had passed and he was a gin alone. To him the train meant settlement and civilization. Things that he probably went to get away from when living in the woods. He describes nature quite clearly as being natural and then how the trains whistle and sounds interrupt it. He seems to like the sounds of cows and roosters however. He is living amongst nature and sees the train as promoting a lot of settlement really quickly across the landscape. The train definitely impacts the way that the landscape is looked at from a perspective of someone living desolately in the woods. Disturbance and interference were seen and described as the railroad cuts across the landscape. The railroad links Thoreau to civilization because he can hear it and follow it into town

In reading both narratives concerning railroads it is obvious that each go to extremes in hope of gaining your support for or against the railroad. The counter-narrative I found to be very appealing. Although it takes place in a very different time period, it points out many of the same issues that we as a society face today. The railroads were the first real powerhouse in the American economy. They were the big dogs. The railroad companies took advantage of some of the first pioneers of the land. Small farmers and land owners who owned and farmed land near the railroad were forced out by land grants given to the railroads. This appears all to firmilar today in our society, many large firms and companies have the power to force small business owner's out of business.

In reading both narratives concerning railroads it is obvious that each go to extremes in hope of gaining your support for or against the railroad. The counter-narrative I found to be very appealing. Although it takes place in a very different time period, it points out many of the same issues that we as a society face today. The railroads were the first real powerhouse in the American economy. They were the big dogs. The railroad companies took advantage of some of the first pioneers of the land. Small farmers and land owners who owned and farmed land near the railroad were forced out by land grants given to the railroads. This appears all to firmilar today in our society, many large firms and companies have the power to force small business owner's out of business.
Another issue the railroad brought to the table was pollution. Coincidentally, we are also faced with this very same issue today.
While I do feel the railroad was very successful in aiding the development of the U.S, I question whether this development is truly worth the costs.

Like many other people I did not realize that the railroad was such a controversial topic I always saw it as one of the first life changing technologies which I suppose it still is. But, after realizing how many people suffered and how the environment suffered because of this technology it really makes you wonder if this was a necessary technology. With the environmental issues surrounding the railroad I can not help but bring up the obvious environmental issues surrounding our current popular transportation, cars. I think it is extremely interesting that earlier Americans could point out the environmental damage being caused by trains. But, instead of moving away from damaging technologies and going toward environmentally friendly technologies; we decided to go with a more damaging technology. Right now we are struggling to find another form of transportation that can take the place of cars. Hopefully this time when we replace our popular transportation technology with a new one we will be moving in the right direction.

Trains were a power house of it's time. It is clear that people were impacted by it. People wrote about it, expressing their feelings towards it. The one thing of today's time that I could compare trains of its time to would be Wal-Mart. They are comparable to a sense that it provided a service that benefited people. Wal-Mart provides all types of services in one store. But at the same time, it drove away speciality stores that are more simple but couldn't compete. Trains are like that in a way, it gave people a better way to travel and transport goods. However, it took attention and drove away simplier things such waterways travel and living with nature.

So many people thought the railroad was the beginning of a new era. They were right but then some skeptics came along and talked about how it invaded the rural landscape. These two readings talked about the good, the bad and the ugly of the railroads. Articles were wrote about the awful food, crowding, and uncomfortable travel on the canals and rail cars. Other people were disturbed at hearing the train’s whistle in the middle of the woods. I think this might have shocked me if I heard it for the first time. It is almost an invasion of privacy to hear a train whistle in the middle of the woods because that is your private area.

“Sounds” was more of a ‘tree hugger’ piece and pulled on your emotions for relaxation and privacy. While reading it, I actually felt relaxed myself and enjoyed the detail it offered. The last line says “no path to the civilized world” and I feel that is completely opposite of the other piece we read.

I think that chapter 8 brings a side of the railroad to view that a person doesn’t usually look at when that consider railroads. I think Hollywood has tried to portray this side of the railroad. You see movie where the railroad is the enemy. For example, American Outlaws, which is a movie where Jesse James steels from the railroads. This is not the only movie which portrays railroads in a negative fashion, there are many out there. I think it is interesting how people don’t associate the railroad with corruption and destructiveness in a normal situation. It is something that people just disregard and don’t think about.

I noticed early in the course we would soon be having a reading from Walden. Great I thought, Thoreau would really get to the core of the question of technology. I had usually agreed with whatever he said concerning his views on the reason for living, but just could not believe it when he started talking about the railroad in the same sentence as bees and partridge, trying to paint a picture of the train as some sort of natural occurence which blended perfectly with nature. Even more disturbing was his tone when he told the story of the boy who nearly died of bordom while working at a solitary farm. How was this "dull and out of the way place" any different than his location near the pond. I just assumed Henry would have been able to see a little more clearly the destructive influence of this modern approach to transit and not got so caught up in the justifications of his time.

It was really interesting to hear this side of the story about railroads. I had always assummed that the railroads always brought more prosperity not poverty. Not only did the railroads set up towns and leave them to fall apart, but the government didn't help the railroad's reputation either. I can't believe the government would sell land to settlers not knowing the rairoad already owned it. Knowing more about the railroad makes me understand why it is on the board game Monopoly. There really was a lot of profit to be made by railroads.

As this chapter was read, I pictured the early railroad as a local coffee shop that everyone seemed to like and get on-board when it was first around. Then as that one grew bigger and started taking over the transportation market (much like a coffee shop getting larger) it took over and started taking advantage of its power, kind of like a corporate business developing and knowing it has control over the market (the market in the railroads case was the environment). Soon it just became the norm to accept that trains were there, just like people nowadays accept coffee is just there (yes I know that a corporate coffee shop isn't destroying the environment like the rail-system did, I'm just stating my point).
People did just seem to disregard any major environmental damage in the past (more so than we do now) however it has to be pointed out that people used to believe that nature was never ending and it would take centuries to "develop" all of it.

In chapter 8 everything bad about the railroad is disclosed. Isn't every new technology defective to some extent? Nothing is ever perfect right from the start. How could anyone expect the railroad to be perfect so soon? While reading the counter-narratives I felt like the railroad was so bad that it shouldn't have even existed. In reality, I believe that the railroad was a great thing and that all of the counter-narratives were necissary to provoke the improvement of it. People are dissatisfied and frustrated with some technology today. What entrepreneurs do is listen to those counter-narratives and then improve what already exists. Counter-narratives encourage continuous improvement.

Live in the moment and enjoy your surroundings. That is the message I seem to gather when I read Thoreau's work. He seems to relish the simple act of sitting and observing the plants and animals around him. As a photographer I think I can relate. It's so easy to miss what's around when your head is elsewhere or if you're in a hurry. I've found that sitting somewhere and observing will practically guarantee that an interesting photo opportunity will present itself.

Thoreau's home sounds wonderful. He really has a talent for describing his surroundings. In the reading, he also gently broaches the topic of the train tracks that are located on the other side of his famous pond.

In his descriptions of the train and the workers that ride it, I get the impression that, while he is not particularly spiteful towards the trains and their riders, he seems to have a greater worry about the change that the trains will bring about.

The train’s counter-narratives speak volumes regarding what may occur should any one thing (needed and relied upon) dominate a society. Nye mentions that the public, during the late nineteenth century, still thought of the train as novel, but grew to despise the corporations controlling them. The trains, after all, were polluting the air, the tracks needed for their movement were destroying the landscape, and the monopolized transportation industry they created throttled the market, whereas automobiles meant freedom of movement without reliance on any outside source, or so it seemed. It is no wonder that the emergence of a form of transportation independent of schedules and corporate greed took over so easily. But today, as history repeats itself, and as automobiles pollute the air, roads destroy the landscape, and oil companies throttle the market, I can't help but wonder: what will conquer ExxonMobil (et al.) in its waterloo?

Reading the comments above, one thing I thought of was the idea about known polloution hazards. I think with the grey cloud of somke coming out of trains people would notice it wasn't great for the environment, but I think we are numb to the fact that a vheical that moved a significnat amonut faster than any other ground vehical must have been quite alluring. Although this narritive proves that it was indeed quite destructive, I believe it must be impressing for the time peroid.

Its interesting to couple chapter 8 with Threau's excerpt, 'Sounds". Threau clearly prefers living in the deep forest. He describes the setting of his cabin with such thought and beauty. When he mentions trains he said it 'penetrated his woods' and that it sounded like 'the scream of a hawk sailing over some farmer's yard'. The train is nothing but a invasive disurbance, harassing his serenity. He described it as if it were some sort of dragon. I couldn't tell with all of his mentions about 'light' and what not if he was religious at all..?

It seems like many common people believed the train to be more of a disturbance rather than helpful or beneficial. But it must have been fasinating to see a metal caravan speed through your town for the first time. I feel as if to understand Threaus piece and entirely understand it, I would have to re-read it.

not only technology but also anything else we can think off have two sides of view, that was the message I learned from this reading. Like previous comment I have made, technology might improve our quality of life, however it might also speeds up the destruction of our environment.
While we are enjoying the benefits from technology inventions, we are also producing polutions to our surroundings. Like author in the book mentioned there'll be dark clouds where railroad is built. Counter industrialize organizations were attacking the fact technology is killing our planet. It makes me wonder the question we have discussed before, is "upgrading" our technology neccesary? by this mean if we can upgrade our technology to make it has more negative effect to our surroundings, then I think upgrading technology will be a neccesary step for making our life better. So we aren't only focused on creating technology, we also need to upgrade what we have got, and make it more positively benefit to our life than negative impact to our surrounding.