WS 3371 Fall 2007

"They did not make this decision because they thought electricity was evil in itself, but because easy access to it could lead to many temptations and the deterioration of church and family life" (quotation in regard to connecting to power lines). I interpret this as- technology begins with innocent intentions, but human nature inevitably leads it to manipulation and misuse, at least at some level. It is not the actual technology that is dangerous to society and mankind, but the way in which it can be used that does harm.

The article states that the Amish have been able to maintain a "closeness of family and group life that the larger society has lost." This made me wonder if the close relationship I thought I had with my family was really not that close at all. I love my family, but I also enjoy my independence. If I had grown up in an Amish family my life would be different for obvious reasons, but maybe the relationships I have with my mom, dad, and sisters would be different too. I'm not sure if I would like spending every hour of every day with them. Is that what Amish life is like?

The Amish lead a rather simple live style in regards to technology. They do not have the technologies that most of us live with and use daily. The biggest one is probably electricity. Most Amish don’t have or use electricity at all. There energy is produced in many other ways. Burning wood and coal are sources of heat for cooking. Light is produced by kerosene and propane lanterns. Some power is produced by gas and diesel engines of horse power. In a way this may be more complex than our use of electricity. Instead of flipping a switch or inserting a plug, all of their “alternatives” to electricity use require much more effort in a variety of ways. Wood must be gathered and cut, coal, kerosene, propane, gas and diesel, are all purchased, and horses must be cared for and hitched up to the desired equipment. Not to mention all of the maintenance on the appliances that are using these resources. Electricity has made our lives easier in the sense that we no longer have to do most of the things that the Amish do everyday for their basics needs. This allows us to be more productive with our time and money.

First, I thought the Mill City Museum was pretty interesting. Like Capper mentioned in class, you could tell there was a bit of bias in what it presented. Mills were shown as a pretty awesome thing that helped the community grow around it and the museum just didn’t mention the negative environmental and worker’s rights stuff. On a side note I guess I never realized that mills were so explosive. It seemed that a lot of placards were about how the mill either exploded or was on fire.

As for “Why Not Electricity?” I agree with Brita in that technology most likely begins with innocent intentions but we either abuse it or sort of warp it into something that was not originally intended. I guess the story with electricity was that it was supposed to make some of the harder daily tasks easier and provide light so more things could be done at night, but now we’ve sort of modeled our lives around it and now every task is dependent on electricity. Something I wondered in regards to the Amish is why does every community allow (at least to some extent) washing machines? Even if nothing else was allowed (on the little table page 4 of the PDF) a washing machine was allowed. Maybe washing clothes by hand is really hard, but the Amish value a sense of community by working together and many people can help wash clothes by hand but it only takes one person to do it with a machine.

I also agree that, many times, we lose sight of what technology can really do for us. I think that technology is used primarily as a way to make life more convenient for us, rather than to implement designs that help us to preserve our ways of life and our planet. Devices that allow us to take our music with us anywhere we go and devices that allow us to be reached anywhere in the world are absurdly abundant, but we still have no solution to long-term alternative fuels or batteries that would allow for longer charges. I realize that creating an MP3 player may be easier than inventing a way to use an element as a fuel, but it seems that so much energy is put into these menial inventions that captivate the public.

In lieu of this, I almost envy the Amish way of life. I think that the physical effort they put into all of their work would give me a sort of satisfaction that my current way of life does not offer. In addition, I can see myself being closer with both my friends and family as such closeness would be conducive to such a cooperative way of life. However, even though the Amish way of life may bring people closer together, I’m not sure that I would want to give up some of the technologies that I have become accustomed to. I think that it would be a neat experiment to do, just to see if I could live happily in an Amish lifestyle, but I don’t think that I would like being so far removed from mainstream society.

I found the field trip to Mill City Museum incredible! There were two distinct groups of people at the museum: school children and senior citizens. I was very impressed with the information they supplied. However, I did notice a lot of exhibits were biased toward General Mills. I had a lot of fun and wouldn’t mind going back to spend more time there. The elevator ride was neat too. It was like an interactive movie. Likewise, the movie about Minneapolis was very humorous. I got a few laughs out of that.

As for the reading, I found that interesting. I find it amazing that Americans in the 21st century still live like it was 1700! The Amish are an interesting group of people. It’s strange how some groups completely reject technology (like the super-conservative Amish) and others (such as the Hutterites) accept it. The reasons for rejecting technology were very interesting. The reading stated, “Just because an innovation makes life easier does not mean, from the Amish point of view, that the new way is desirable. The crucial issues is whether a particular innovation will help build a community.” Sometimes I wonder if maybe the Amish aren’t so “crazy” after all. Just because something is easier, doesn’t necessarily make it desirable. For instance, one technology that is “easier” but not “more desirable” would be the electronic can opener or lotion warmer. WHY DO WE NEED THESE???

I thought that the fieldtrip to the museum was very interesting. My boyfriend’s dad used to work for General Mills so it was interesting to hear the museums’ views on the company. They seemed to be a bit biased. He always has such great stories to tell about the time he spent working for General Mills so it was interesting to hear someone else’s’ viewpoint. I don’t know if his stories were different because he held a pretty high up position in comparison to the mill workers or what it could be. I really enjoyed seeing firsthand all the things that go into a mill. All of the interworkings and the components associated with mills were amazing.
As for the article it was very intriguing. I actually visited an Amish settlement in Pennsylvania on a fieldtrip when I was in high school. It was amazing to see how different their way of life is compared to ours. We got to tour one of the homes and saw how their households varied as well. They had no televisions or phones, most had no electricity or running water as well. They made all of their clothes from scratch. They were all of very high quality because they need their clothes to be durable enough that they do not need constant repairs. Many of the rooms had large pans for washing their hands as well as showering. They still drove the horse and buggies, and got their milk from cows they milked themselves; they also grew their own crops and raised livestock. It is amazing to see how different their culture is compared to ours. Our way of life has advanced thanks to technological advances, but the Amish have overlooked these technologies and choose to live the way that they have lived for hundreds of years. They are able to completely sustain themselves and be self-sufficient. I think that we could definitely learn a lot from their way of life if we wanted to sacrifice some of the technologies that many people view as necessary today.

One of the most extreme cases i could use to highlight the way many people view the chosen lifestyle of the Amish comes from a high school buddy of mine. After he went through a pretty wild time in his life, his father could not handle it anymore and gave him two options. If he did not get back on track he would either go to a military school for troubled youth or spend a few weeks with some local Amish. Now many might think the Amish way of life seems like a punishment, but to compare it to the military in any form seemed to me to be taking it too far. I would actually be somewhat interested in trying out the Amish experience, since i believe the lessons learned in just a few days with them would be far more beneficial than those learned in any type of military setting, no matter how long the stay. I should go talk to the learning abroad center and see if such an experience would qualify for study abroad credits since, especially in the ultra conservative sects, living in one of these isolated communities would be like living in some distant land, somehow stuck in a time bubble a few decades back.

I didn't know what to do when I lost my cell phone two days ago. It seemed as though my life was very unorganized. It shows how reliant I am on having my technology and I am not ashamed of admitting it because I and along with many people my age, were raised around technology. We were almost pushed to learn to use technology. It is interesting to read the beliefs and morals of the Amish community. I thought it was interesting to know that one of the reason to avoid technology is to share some quality time with the community/family. It is completely different from what I am used to. It is also satisfying to see a certain group of people's ability being to live a happy life in this growing technological oriented society. I wonder as technology continue to advance, will that ever change or affect the Amish community? Many Amish have adapted a little to the technological advances over the years. As technology improves, will the Amish eventually "give in"? Perhaps they will always just be a bit behind in accepting it. While we try to keep up with the fast pace of technology improvements, the Amish are trying to avoid it to continue the life and beliefs that they have chosen.

Until I read this article I didn't believe that the Amish even went near electricity (even though, as the reading pointed out, the most strict followings of the Amish way do). It's kind of inspiring that they have taken technologies such as compressed gas lamps and wood stoves and improved upon them over the years, it's almost like a view into the present lives had electricity never been harnessed and used. The whole modified diesel gas engines and battery powered washing machines seems a little bit questionable however, because how far off is that set up when compared to electrical lines? It took a lot of electricity to refine the gasoline that they are using didn't it? And a pneumatic drill/tools isn't exactly ancient technology.
There was a table in the reading that showed which Amish communities allowed what, and the seemingly "most strict" community allowed motorized washing machines while forbidding indoor plumbing... And I like how they will take newer items (such as refrigerators) and essentially downgrade them to the point where they need a big block of ice to keep them cold, isn't this the opposite of improving the gas lamps etc, and a bit wasteful? (Has anyone ever harvested ice? It looks difficult). I also enjoy the idea that manual labor and exercise are deemed as worthwhile qualities, I would really like to spend time in a community such as this to see what it's really like.

I enjoyed my trip to the mill museum. It was interesting to read about all the different explosions that have happened, and the benefits of mills to the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. I didn’t realize that the mill industry (logging, flour, water, etc) was so important to the development of this area.
With the article, I found it really interesting the validation the Amish had for each of technologies that they used and those that they refuse to use. However, I think that their idea of trying to keep their people away from technology won’t work for long. Like it was stated in the article, some of the not so conservative Amish have had to adapt the technologies, because the older technologies they were using were no longer being created or they were not able to live and compete in society. So, in a way, I think the Amish will eventually give in to a lot more technologies than in the past.

I knew that the Amish typically strayed away from modern technologies; but I did not know their reasoning. I found it to be very interesting that the basis for their decision to be mostly electric free was because of their moral beliefs. “They did not make this decision because they thought electricity was evil in itself, but because easy access to it could lead to many temptations and the deterioration of church and family life…Radio and television promote values that are directly opposed to those of the Amish.” (5). It really is kind of ironic today to reflect on our current situation and see if this is so in our own lives. I know one example where I definitely agree with the Amish: TVs in cars. I remember going on long family car rides when I was younger, and we did not have a chance to just turn on a DVD and be quiet for the ride. Instead, we as a family would constantly be communicating, listening to/singing with my parent’s music, having discussions, and bonding as a family. I believe that the TV in the car takes this away from many families. So, maybe the Amish are right.

I honestly didn't realize that some Amish do use some advanced technology. They still need to be involved in the economy to provide for their families and sometimes they must sacrifice conservative beliefs on certain technologies. For example, the reading said that carpenters carried gas run portable generators for power tools. That sounded so 'un Amish' to me. Along with that, some farmers having electrical fences! That was weird for me to read probably because of the fact that when I heard electrical fence I thought of something brutal. I know they are that bad but it's the Amish, I feel that an electrical fence isn't very conservative christian of them.

Anyways, I respect the Amish sense of family and community. They really strive for that and I feel that the world we live in is lacking somewhat in that area. I do agree that technology does separate us from forming a more meaningful relationship with someone but I also feel strongly that in enables us to continue a strong relationship with those that are far away from us. For example, a little text message to/from my mom gives us that little bit of communication whenever we want it if the phone call has to wait.

when I first heard of amish people, I thought they were completely independant from any technologies, I thought they weren't allowed of using any technologies at all. Surprisingly after reading this article, I have came to realized there are exceptions, Amish people are allowed of using battery powered technologies such as hand light. Also I found it is interesting how this article stated without technologies, amish families are closer than we to our families. I wonder if the author classifies closer as family works together in order to survive. I am uncertain about how the author found out about the closeness of family is correlated with technology.

After reading this article my views on the Amish community have changed quite a bit. I liked how the author made the point of stating the goals of the Amish community. So many people, including myself, thought that they were just against technology and change. The Amish do not oppose change, they just want to comtinue to improve their community. They also believe that hard work is healthy for the body and soul. Imagine how much healthy our society would be if we chose to do things because it required hard work. Another thing that I thought was really nobel was that the Amish have a strong belief that People need one another more than they need machines. So many technologies today decrease our need for one another and our community. The internet is a good example of a technology like this. We can get almost everything we need from the internet with out interacting with a single human being.

I visited the Mill City Museum as well and found it to be very interesting. As someone said, it was interesting to see how pivotal mills were to the Twin Cities. Like the majority of the posters here, I agree that there was some favor shown to General Mills.

The article is very interesting because I just learned about the Old Order Amish in a Sociology class I took last spring. I think there are extremities to everything. While I believe it's okay to not believe in every new technology, I believe that it's extreme to not use any form of technology at all. That is why I believe there are Amish that are shying away from not using any form of electricity. I ask the same question the author asks: will they be able to continue practicing the old ways? Will they have to conform to society eventually?

After reading the article on the Amish I learned a lot. I was never aware of all the different levels of strictness and how it varied between communities. I find the use of a washing machine very surprising. The distinction between acceptable technology and forbidden seems very blurred. Although I can begin to understand the reasoning behind keeping life simple and centered on simple values, I still want to claim what they do is ridiculous, but can’t. The Amish have maintained extremely strong family and community bonds. Every aspect of life is so much more involved for the Amish. The “primitive” methods they implement require so much more effort and time. But is that really a bad thing. The lack of free time keeps people from inventing new ways to run the selves over with the wheel. Because of the simple life style, the amish have what many people feel is missing from modern lifestyle.(family values, good morels ect.) If society as a whole had followed the simplistic path would we be better off? How many modern problems would have been prevented, such as global warming, war, poverty, hunger, over population, aids, drugs, crime and so many more. Is the solution to all these problems not some new magic technology but rather regressing to a simpler existence?

The Mill City Museum is one of a kind and was quite educational. The little children running and yelling added to my experience. The actually items from the mills and descriptions about how they worked was also quite nice. I did notice that the lab kitchen was full of young children and I don’t fully know how they got to make cookies but I wanted to join them. The flour tower ride/videos was an exciting part of the tour and I think that will be remembered more after the tour than any other part. The view on the day I went was spectacular and it was also the first time I saw (in real life) St. Anthony Falls. You could also see the island by the Hennepin Ave. Bridge which I didn’t even know was there. The other students from class that I went with all thought it was a good informative tour and I think all students in the Twin Cities should learn about their history.

I really enjoyed the Mill City Museum. After I left I had an overwhelming feeling of pride for this state. I am glad that we had to go there because I unfortunatly probably never would have otherwise.

Before I read "Why not Electricity?" I never knew that Amish communties were so different from one another and that each one had to determine what technologies are too much. I liked how it said that Amish people would rather just work hard than try to fill that physical void with scheduled jogging or exercising. It makes scence. The article said that lines must be drawn, but is seems like the line keeps on extending outwards as time goes by. I think that the Amish will have to advance technologically like we do, but they will just always be one hundred years behind.

I went to the Mill on Sunday, and I noticed that there were many positive aspects about General Mills on display. In all, I would say that the museum's purpose is to show the mills as a great part of Minnesota history, but there were some parts of the counter narrative mixed in the displays. I saw one with quotes from 1920 discussing the low wages and poor working conditions of the mill employees, and another quote about how the wages were higher than many other industries. It was funny when the Flour Tower tour guide became a bit sarcastic about General Mills move from "flour to Tuna Helper".
I went to this museum when it first opened in 2003, and it is mostly the same, but I was able to notice more things having learned more about the topic in class.

I had no idea that so much technology was used by many of the amish people. I agree with a previous comment about the electric fences. That seems like an unusual choice for the amish. It doesn't strike me as a completely necessary technology, and of all the ones they chose not to use, I was surprised to find that listed among the ones some of them do.

I have lived here my entire life and never been to the mill city museum. I really liked their displays and very much enjoyed their flour tower tour. I was pleased with the fact that they showed all sides of the mill. Good and bad. It was enlightening to see how the mill directly impacted Minneapolis.

As for the reading "Why not Electricity?" I really liked reading about how the Amish people live. Since I was young I always envied the Amish people and their lifestyle (mostly because they had horses). However, it was really interesting to read about why they chose to live in that fashion. I never really knew why a community would want to live without electricity. After this class I am understanding why a community would do without. Having enhanced technology can make life easier but as the reading explains, it definitely can make life more complicated. I think the Amish have it right, living with fewer technologies means that you base more energy into the community than into the technology around you.

I thought that the article “Why Not Electricity?” was very interesting, I have always found the Amish to be fascinating; I often find myself wondering if I could ever live the way that they do and the answer of course being no. I rely too much on technology to ever live close to an Amish way of life. The thought of a technology that I take for granted every day to be controversial and not widely excepted by a group of people is intriguing. One thing is particular that I learned from the article was that some Amish communities use batteries and some even have electricity now, it seems odd to me that a group would be able to except these technologies and not except others such as cars.

On the page with the chart displaying which Amish communities allow certain types of technologies. They show tractors being used for farming fields when I was thinking they had a plow hooked up to a horse. The Amish are slowly becoming what we are now, maybe not in the next 10 years but possibly in 50-75 years. Then it makes me wonder how non-Amish communities are going to be living in 50-75 years. I would really hate a lazy all technological community. I'm a person that has to be active at a job or in life in general. I view physical labor as the Amish do, not as something hated but as exercise for the body. If my theory on Amish lifestyles slowing converting to how we're living now, I might go Amish at the age of 70.

While I was looking at the exhibits at the mill city museum, a lot of the time what went through my head was "wow, there must have been a lot of lung problems for the people who worked here". Even though some of the dangerous and hazardous health problems were touched on, I was surprised that there was no exhibit specifically about the dangers of working in a mill and the health problems that ensued. The whole museum seemed to be in denial about the negative aspects of milling.

I can't say that I was surprised about the article "Why not electricity?" a large group of Amish have moved in up the road from my home. They use electricity and phones and combines and get rides in trucks and vans when necessary. I always thought this was a little hypocritical, but as the article suggested, I didn't (and probably still don't) understand the point and purpose they are trying to get at. I suppose there is a point that working together maintains the community, but I don't think that people need each other any less today, it is just different. We have different means of communicating, but we still communicate.

In general, I question the religious foundation on which the Amish maintain their way of life. Striving to be a society that emphasizes communal ideals and familial values seems to be a goal not necessarily in line with the rejection of technology on the basis of achieving otherworldliness. Such things can be emphasized with technology inasmuch as they can without it. Regardless, values and ideals can be as highly esteemed as physical manifestations of technology. Worrying about what is and isn’t an “abomination unto God” is missing the point of the Gospel, whose message, in general, is one of love, charity, humility, and tolerance. When worldly things interfere with, prevent, or detract from such things, then they become abominations. The question they should be asking themselves is this: does technology interfere with, prevent, or detract from one’s faculty for love, charity, humility, and tolerance?

First off, let me say that i know this is a little late. I have night class on Mondays and yadda yadda yadda this is the first chance i got to write a comment. Sorry!

Anyway, the reading made my mind go off on a tangent thinking of all the things electricity allows us to do that we take for granted. Almost every professor i've had since about fifth grade has just assumed that everyone in the class had or could access a computer somehow. The internet itself, constant connection to our friends, the news, our classmates (allowing an internet forum in which a class can comment on their homework assignments) - all of it is pretty much considered infinite. We'll never run out of the internet, we'll never be unable to contact each other. If somehow we lost electricity, the world would suddenly become as big and as formidable as it was back in Christopher Columbus's time! We won't know immediately what is happening halfway across the world or indeed halfway across the continent! I can't even imagine a world like that.

Anyway, yeah, it got me thinking.

I think that the Amish are a particularly fasinating group of people beacuse of their close knit community that i might even call unique. The reason they have this is the more interesting part: aside from religion, their founding ancestors predicted the change among society and created a soultion for them to be happy and to satisfiy their humanly needs. They get satisfaction from working in the fields, using their bodys for what they are made to do, and being self sufficent beings.

This is amazing in todays society. I wonder if any of us who grew up in a city could do this if we tried! I do think i could do it.

The Amish are not only leaving room for innovation in natural farming techniques, they are also respecting the earth and environment while they do it. They are so far from the american standard that it is scary to put 'us' on the other end of the spectrum (lazy, inefficent, wasteful, accostmed to new life..)

Reading about the Amish reminded me of a study that found that modern, present day people are not any happier than people from something like 30 to 60 year ago.

Was this study in our earlier readings?

Anyway,
Even though we have all these modern gadgets that are supposed to make our lives easier, the stress of dealing with it all actually makes us less happy!

I believe that the Amish were also surveyed, and guess what? They are happier than we are. Maybe leisure time is bad for us?

If we had to get by without as many modern conveniences, would the increased amount of labor that is needed to survive keep us from dwelling on the petty matters in life?