EngL1401W - Spring 2007: Introduction to "Third World" Literature

Susan and Foe’s relationship took a turn that I was totally not expecting. Prior to section III, I was starting to think that Foe did not even exist and that Susan was going crazy. Then, Susan and Friday make there way to Foe’s lodgings and I get even more confused. I don’t know who or what to believe. Actually, I started to think that Foe was really the husband Susan had supposedly left and that she had gone crazy and he was trying to rebuild her memory. I started to invent this alternate story to try to explain what was going on with Susan’s daughter, Amy, Jack, and Foe’s affection. Maybe Susan has amnesia or was infected with the fever Cruso had and went a little off the deep end. Susan does ask who she is on page 138. Or maybe she was writing a story and she got so engulfed by it that she started to believe it and now it consumed her. I don’t really know how to take Susan and Foe’s relationship. Another guess could be that Foe is just using Susan to make a good book and turn a profit. This reasoning seemed to be supported when Foe suggests (during sex) that Susan should teach Friday how to talk to find some more information for the story. This made me think that he either wants more details or that he is using Susan’s life to write his own story and wants her to fulfill his future plot ideas. Their relationship seems weird and creepy at times and I hope the last 4 pages can clarify what is really going on.

Also, is there something wrong with Friday’s manlihood? I got the impression that Susan noticed something when Friday was dancing in the robes, but was not sure how to interpret it.

this book is getting wierder and wierder, yet I am fascinated with it...What's going on?! What's going to happpen!?

this book is getting wierder and wierder, yet I am fascinated with it...What's going on?! What's going to happpen!?

Susan and Friday need each other to survive. Susan's complete life revolves around Friday, she justifies a lot her her thoughts and feelings towards what is is trying to write through Friday. I think Susan knows she is worthless but she brings meaning to her life by trying to help out Friday. Susan, through out the book she tries to get Friday to speak but she gets frustrated on page 142 and realizes she has failed.
Friday's life would be very different it was not for Susan he would most likely be a slave in the islands somewhere living a horrible life, but instead he lives like very few people of his kind could in those days, free and able to see life with their own views.

I think the daughter is some sort of spirit, she has a mysterious sense about her. She comes from nowhere and seems to know everything about Susan's past.

Oh man—I’m finding it very had to grasp the meaning behind this book. I’m so confused! :S

Susan and Friday are odd. I’m not sure if he controls her or she controls him. Obviously the lack of communication helps nothing at all, but Friday seems only to do chores when he pleases, out of boredom. Therefore I wonder: is Susan more susceptible to Friday’s mood than Friday is to Susan’s? I would have to say they are almost equally oppressed by each other simply because I am not convinced Friday can’t understand Susan and Susan is just too stupid to realize this. Friday chooses not to communicate with Susan and Susan still uses Friday in a slave-like way.

Where did the little Susan Barton come from? How on earth could she have followed the “real” Susan everywhere, including the island? I think she has to be some kind of spirit or apparition. Susan is losing her mind or we (the readers) are being fooled beyond belief. I don’t know where Coetzee is going with this “daughter,” but I’m not convinced she’s Susan’s daughter, or even REAL at that! May the confusion continue…

Oh man—I’m finding it very had to grasp the meaning behind this book. I’m so confused! :S

Susan and Friday are odd. I’m not sure if he controls her or she controls him. Obviously the lack of communication helps nothing at all, but Friday seems only to do chores when he pleases, out of boredom. Therefore I wonder: is Susan more susceptible to Friday’s mood than Friday is to Susan’s? I would have to say they are almost equally oppressed by each other simply because I am not convinced Friday can’t understand Susan and Susan is just too stupid to realize this. Friday chooses not to communicate with Susan and Susan still uses Friday in a slave-like way.

Where did the little Susan Barton come from? How on earth could she have followed the “real” Susan everywhere, including the island? I think she has to be some kind of spirit or apparition. Susan is losing her mind or we (the readers) are being fooled beyond belief. I don’t know where Coetzee is going with this “daughter,” but I’m not convinced she’s Susan’s daughter, or even REAL at that! May the confusion continue…

One thing that has surprised me about the relationship between Foe and Susan is how he acts more as a friend than a professional hired to tell her story. I first really noticed this when she invited herself to live in his vacant home with Friday. It surprised me that he had also given them some money before he disappeared to live on for a bit. When I understood that he was supposed to write her story, I thought he was more than friendly about it and encourages her to think hard about things and comforts her she seems stressed. Their sexual experience on 139/140 blew my mind and was a little painful to read. For the time frame, she seems to take sex very casually and treats it like an act that men deserve, not thinking about herself at all or what it means to her.

I definitely think that Friday and Susan are allies, although they cannot communicate they are going through the same situation together. For instance, when Barton spends the night in the cold barn and realizes why Friday ‘danced’ so much, they grow to understand one another. On a racial level obviously there is a distinction between oppression, but Barton being a woman definitely can identify with Friday a lot more than Crusoe could, another reason why I think Coetzee added Barton his retelling. As they travel together often people mistook Barton for a gypsy and she also begins to wonder whether Friday, without or with tongue would have found travelling with her tiresome.
As for "In every story there is a silence,” it could very directly indicate Friday’s presence in the book, or again it can relate back to the theme of reality and the substance of any of the characters sides of the tale. It’s what the author chooses to be unknown, like Barton remained quiet about life before the island. Friday’s story is the greatest evidence for this statement because not only can we not hear him but we don’t know anything of his past such as where he’s from, how he got to the island or lost his tongue.
About the relationships in this story, mostly surrounding Barton, with her daughter, Crusoe and Foe, the only word to describe it is, weird. None of it can be explained with logic, so I will not try.

I think that the quote "In every story there is silence" is a very thought provoking quote. My interpretation is that in every story, every legend, every person's life, there are things unknown. There are points in stories and blocks of time in a persons life where things are unknown. Bits of stories become forgotten as they're passed around, bits of people's lives are unable to be remembered and are then erased. Not everything can be remembered, and results in mystery and ambiguity.

While reading, I was confused on whether Susan and Foe knew each other before. I think it was Emily who stated that it was hard to determine if Foe was controlling Susan throughout the story or if Susan was controlling Foe into writing a certain story.

As for Susan's daughter, where did she come from? It was hard to determine if she was brought for Susan from Foe or if she is her true daughter. I find it hard to believe that her daughter would be able to find her at Foe's home after so many years. I am confused on what is intended to be in Foe's story? Is it just what Susan writes or is it her visit with Foe as well? Who are her daughter and Amy? are they real, I dont know?

I was also startled by Susan and Foe’s relationship. The first thing that struck me as peculiar was the fact that Susan started occupying his house without his direct consent. Then she started selling/pawning his items… very strange taking into account that she had only met him once (or a few times?). The next weird event was her happening upon his other house. That confused me because I was starting to feel like he was dead or like Allison, that he was just made up and that Susan was going crazy. Anyways, why did Susan sleep with Foe? She was not obliged to by any means… it just doesn’t make sense. There was no sort of romantic relationship between them prior to their night together; they were strictly friends or even acquaintances.

Strange novel…

Now to “girl” - I’m not buying into that. I still think she’s Foe’s creation. Susan didn’t deny having a daughter earlier in the text, so why would she now? Also, how is she starting to believe that “girl” could be her daughter? All of a sudden, she’s like “Ok, I give up” then hugs and kisses the little girl, accepting her as her daughter. Just weird!!

At this point, I’m pretty sure that Susan is crazy… or maybe doesn’t exist at all.

While I was reading, I also noticed another freedom reference (page 149) quite similar to the one we discussed in class (page 100). In the later excerpt, Foe says, "Freedom is a word like any word. It is a puff of air, seven letters on a slate." I got the feeling, from this one too, that the author is trying to convey a message that freedom isn't really all that it's cracked up to be. To describe the word as a puff of air and earlier just a noise really takes you aback. This huge concept/goal that all people want... deflated to a mere, insignificant phrase or two. Very strange!

I agree with Emily as to what the quote, "In every story there is a silence" (141) means. She was explaining how in any retelling of a story there are going to be things about it that go untold and and then are unknown. That is why there seem to be some gaps in Susan's and Foe's stories. Possibly the author is trying to express his feelings about DeFoe's telling of the original Robinson Crusoe. He may feel that there are gaps in the story that make it seem like he was portraying the story with some untruths and impossibilities. For example, Friday's physical characteristics.
To add to Emily's definition of what this phrase means, I think that it can also mean that words can't always describe what was happening to someone. The feelings that they had can't be said with word in a way that does it justice. Susan may have a hard time telling her story, and then there are silences and gaps in the story, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she is lying. It may just be hard for her to tell what she felt in the situation. This is just an example of a story having silence.

Like Alli, I too think that Foe is perhaps Susan's husband and she has amnesia or something. I also think that "little Susan" and "Amy" know about Susan's condition of amnesia and are trying to gently get her back to a place where she remembers who they are. It just is weird the way that Amy and "little Susan" look at Susan so hopefully like she will eventually come around. This makes me think that they were all originally once a family (except for Amy who was the nurse). The book kind of leaves a lot of detail out for the reader to imagine. Maybe I'm completely in left field for having come to these conclusions.

P.S. what's with Susan sleeping with these men?? very weird...

Friday seems to be the only real stable constant in this book. Susan, in reference to her "daughter," comes off a very disjointed and erratic. The part where she finds the abandoned stillborn infant added to my sense of her loosing her grip on reality. Friday is the only character in the book that remains stable. The only weird thing he does is show a strange obsession with Foe's robes and wigs. But I'd act the same way if I was stuck in an old house like that. Although the majority of the novel follows Susan Barton and the story she's trying to tell, I actually think this book is really about Friday more than anyone else. Sure, we never get his point of view, but he is the only character that seems genuine throughout the whole book.

Susan's supposed daughter, i think, is entirely a figment of her imagination. Her "daughter" to settle Susan's apparent guilt about never finding her. For a brief section of the book it feels like SB jr. might take over the story. Her role feels more and more important and it's as if she is coming into replace Friday---Susan will control her now, she will do Friday's work.

I liked the exchange between Foe and Susan. It's funny that he points out her island story is like old bread in a plethra of pastries and donuts. He makes a point, and Coetzee seems to be telling us that there's always some fabrication to every story...this one being Robinson Crusoe of course.

I agree with Luke in that Coetzee is trying to tell us that in all stories there is some fabrication. As the reader I think he wants us to start questioning everything we thought we knew in the plot of Foe.
With regards to Susan and her "daughter". I can't figure out who I believe. Susan seems like a really shady character. She refuses to tell anyone about her past, the only story she wants told is that of the island. She halfway believes this is her daughter. I mean you either know its your daughter or you dont...it seems strange to say wait maybe she is my daughter. So that whole situation is a little weird. Then again maybe Coetzee did hire her and Amy or maybe Susan is imagining it all....

I think the bit about the silence is directly corresponding to Friday. We know nothing about his story except for that fact that he was a slave and that he does not talk. He may have an entire twist to the story we do not know. Imagine the difference in the story if Friday could communicate in any language or even write. We could learn his real name, where he is from, where he was destined, where he wants to go when he escapes the island, and maybe no be the inferior to Crusoe and Barton. He seems like the most interesting and mysterious character, but his silence puts him in the role he is.

The story of Susan's maybe daughter is really weird. The fact that Susan does not accept this girl and is continually pushing her thinking that there is some sort of conspiracy going on makes the reader think that she is losing her mind. A lot of the things that she does with the girl, such as taking her to the forest to tell her that her father is actually Foe, only serves to question my belief in her ability to tell me what is real what she is making up. Her grasp of reality seems to slip just like Cruso's on the island. I think that Coetzee does this to warn the reader not to trust books to tell the truth of the world. The fact that he makes Susan out to be some sort of loony about her daughter makes the reader question her sense of reality, and the reality of the entire story. By discrediting Susan, Coetzee is sending out a message that stories are not where readers should be trying to learn about the world because they are only some people's points of views and do not apply to broad spectrums of cultures and races.

This is surely one of the weirdest books i have come across in a long time. Out of the blue, we are thrown into this relationship between Susan and Foe. I thought they were more like professional aquintances than anything romantic but their relationship defies any definition that i can think of. As for the girl, i seriously think she is Susan's own creation out of hallucination or something otherwise how do we explain the fact that she was supposedly there with Susan when she was on the island? That makes a big hole in Susan's credibility in telling the story of Friday and Cruso. I dont think Susan's deduction of Foe sending the girl as something which would add more excitement to the story is plusible. Maybe it is all an illusion and maybe the story in itself is an illusion.

The question I would like to discuss is for what reasons does Friday not speak. Is it because he actually does not have a tongue and physically is unable? Or is there another reason? I believe that a possible reason he does not speak is that it is the only way he feels he is able to be “heard”. By being defiant and not speaking, he is not allowing Foe, Susan, or anyone else to learn his story. He could be silent because he does not want his story to be contaminated, or because he wants to show people how he is against the ways many of his people have had to live under slavery. Friday’s defiant silence is a very powerful part of the book, and this silence could be used to go against the European slave system.

The relationship between Susan and Foe seems innocent at first, but then it gradually became an intimate relationship. As nasty as this may sound, but sometimes I feel like they regard each other as brother and sister. They have small arguments, but in the end of the night, they are loving one another. It seems like there is a phantom intimacy between the two because on the surface neither of them want to display their affections for one another, but then they discuss intimate issues. It seems that Susan has confided a lot of her feelings and thoughts about the world to Foe and she hopes that in return he would not expell it to the world.
After reading the scenes with Susan learning about the possibilty of the girl standing in front of her may be her lost daughter, it makes me wonder why in the world did Coetzee added that story? It seems like it was such as waste of pages! But then I realize that Susan's initial agenda upon boarding that ship was to find her daughter. Foe introduce this girl into the story because Coetzee wants to show that not everything you see and hear are the truth. It is also showing that Susan is not as gullible and that this created suspense will soon unfold itself in the end of the story.

What confused me the most about Susan's possible daughter was Susan's complete dismissal of the possibility that this girl could be her daughter. I almost felt that this was her daughter and that Susan is losing her mind and becoming so paranoid that she doesn't even consider the possibility. I think that Defoe must have found the girl and sent her to Susan in order to try and coax her into telling her entire story or to prove that Susan has lost it. I don't know the story of Roxana and perhaps becoming familiar with that will make more sense as to why Coetzee included this in the book.

The relationship between Friday and Susan is a complicated one, I can’t tell who is more oppressed, Susan or Friday. Friday doesn’t seem to really listen to Susan and he just goes off and does his own thing, yet if he were to leave her he would have no options in the world that she brought him to. They are allies in a sense that without the other they’re nobodies, at least together Susan can continue giving Friday orders which he can either obey or ignore. The introduction of Susan’s “daughter” though gives her an opportunity to break away in a sense and gives her someone else to talk to, even though she does not believer her to be her real daughter. The daughter presents an interesting situation, especially in the third section of the story, where it seems as though Susan is going crazy or at least DeFoe is trying to make her think she’s crazy. At first she is adamant about the child not being hers but then starts to question her own sanity which makes the reader question her entire story.

I really thought the part with the musical instruments was really effective. It really made me start thinking about how much the people around you are listening. This whole time Susan thinks she is making a ton of progress with Friday, that each of them are playing music in harmony and finally understanding each other and communicating. But when Friday doesn't respond to her variations, she loses hope. Were the two ever really connecting? Or maybe Susan just wasn't listening to Friday. Whatever the answer, the scene brought up a lot of really interesting ideas on the nature of communicating.

The relationship between the two was by far my favorite part of the book. It was really interesting to see how much Susan's personality changed as she became more and more isolated. There was something so tragic about a woman writing letters to know one in particular. The whole time I kept thinking that while it must have been hard for Susan to have no one to converse with, it must have been even harder for Friday who never can really talk with anyone. Maybe "in every story there is silence" refers to what is unspoken between characters. The majority of Susan's character development comes from self analysis.

In Foe the second section of the reading threw me off even more, especially when that little girl claimed to be Susan’s daughter. It definitely was hard to tell who was telling the truth and who was not, not just between Susan and the girl either but between Susan’s perspectives of the Island versus what might have been Cruso’s and also from what Foe was looking for. Foe wanted more than just the Island story like how she came about the Island and her experiences before it such as in Bahia. I think he wanted more of the story not just to make it more interesting but also because it gives background of who she was and is and what makes her the way she is. He realized that her story didn’t just start and end at the Island but that it was much more than that.

I agree with Sarah that I can’t tell either who is more oppressed at this point whether it is Susan or Friday. Susan seems to be so burdened by the life dealt to her that she can’t seem to enjoy life or to even get on track to make something of her life, granted it is a different time period that treated women much differently than men. Friday wasn’t treated very well either because he was African abut he also knew how to enjoy simple things such as robes and flutes and such.

I find it odd that even thought she doesn’t believe that the little Susan is her daughter she doesn’t even try to mother her or reach out to her, but rather abandons her and leaves her out in the cold. I thought that was pretty heartless and if it were me I would have adopted her regardless if she were my real daughter or not. The girl was living on the streets for cryin’ out loud!

the daughter is rather strange. I don't know if it is Susan's conscious or hopes but the daughter figure is just there. It really shows by the time of the appearance of this daughter that Foe/Coetzee is in control and not Susan. Once susan returns to civilization she loses her identity and story to ssace one who redirects it. This shows an imbalance of sanity and personality for Susan.

I think the relationship between Susan and Friday lies completely within Susan's paradigm. That is, Friday only exists as Susan's interpretation of him, especially because all we see him as is her description. He doesn't participate in their relationship. Rather, Susan sort of puppets him, interpreting his behavior within her own context, literally forcing him to stand as her character in this story she is imagining for the two of them. They are similar in that Susan kind of warps her own reality and the Friday we know exists in a purely warped sense because we know absolutely nothing about him. Foe has a really interesting dream-like quality because of this...