EngL1401W - Spring 2007: Introduction to "Third World" Literature

I found Spivak's argument about women's ethical gender choices to be somewhat culture specific. Where I am from, women are expected to be hard, strong, and stubborn so as to support the family in the absense of the father (I grew up in a fishing town). Back home, any woman who chose to be "innocent, sweet, etc" would be seen as weak and undesirable. This follows Spivak's argument that going against the norm, as a woman, can have significant consequences, I felt that she overgeneralized what expectations are set for women. To me, those expectations are culturally specific.
Spivak did seem to be saying that the subaltern can speak...sort of. I think she was saying that they can speak if they can find an outlet that will make people listen. I say "think" because I struggled with this preface. I laughed when, at the end, she justified using such dense language right as I was becomming frustrated with how dense the preface was! Although I agree with her point and that of Coetzee, I don't always have time to digest her work.

Spivak argues, "'India' is not an undivided perspective, much as both conservatives and radicals in the United States would strive to represent it as such. and the division within the United States are there for deconstructive pedagogic use, although both politicians and ideologues on both sides in India would like to convince us otherwise." Therefore by accepting demonization of the U.S. would mean that one can assume that all of the U.S. and India (or any other place) is one large substance with a single contrast-less view. It isn't as simple as, "East is East and West is West" individuals make up countries and can't be clumped up into one group.

I guess we can derive from the preface that Spivak was saying that the subaltern can be heard but then again we can only assume. Still, if that was in fact what she was saying, I'm sure even Spivak will agree that there are exceptions to everything. Also, we can't be a 100% certain that Dolouti's death spoke to the people who surrounded her, "standing crowded together, pointing with their fingers, speaking fearfully, pausing often." I would even say that her death definitely did not speak to them because they didn't know her circumstance, her story.

I would definitely say that this "choice" hinders women today in mostly every facet in their lives. Obviously, this differs from situation to situation. Even though women in the urban society have to take on the appearance of an independent working woman, it's still assumed that they have to have a certain vulnerability, or sweetness and innocence to them, for example, they dream of the day they get married, or what they're going to name their children etc., which creates a very warped sense of character because you have to be a constant chameleon, which can be a roadblock.

I agree with Eleanor's opinion abot women's ethical gender choices... I also think that culturally and stereotypically, there are certain things that a lady should be. These "shoulds" become internalized and basically common practice in some places. Now, many women are trying to get out of these roles, but as Spivak said, it's a huge roadblock.

Personally speaking, my family doesn't follow the traditional Indian family roles. A long time ago, women were expected to cook, clean, and basically care for their husband... be at his beck and call. Now, that's definitely not the case within my community, but I know of a few first generation Indian families (my family left India maybe 4-5 generations ago) that still follow these gender roles. The wives still cook for the husbands, don't eat until he's done eating... clean the house, stay home etc. My friend's dad doesn't even do the dishes- the idea is just unheard of for them. One day, she was at my house and my dad was washing the dishes and she was really shocked. My dad also cooks occasionally... another strange thing for an Indian male. Granted, things have changed a lot. but generally speaking, we're still battling the whole gender role thing. As an Indian girl, my parents expect me not to go out too late. When I do... they tell me I'm not a boy. I think maybe that's just my family, we're a bit paranoid- big news watchers. It's mainly a safety issue- but still..

k, I could probably go on about this for a while... so I'll just stop before I reach 1000 words!

I think what Spivak is saying when she speaks out against the demonization of the U.S. is that culture is not exclusively for one ethnic group. In America we drink coffee adopted from South American culture, and no one in the world hasn't heard of Michael Jackson. Especially in the age of new communication, culture in the form of art and music is transmitted to all parts of the world. The supposed line between the east and west is so blurred that one can no longer denounce another culture without denouncing his own.

I do think that woman are faced with pressure from outside and from themselves to be more feminine. In my psychology class, this need to be more feminine was shown to be a great pressure even in childhood. Girls expected each other to want to play house and dress up Barbies. Girls who didn't want to were singled out as tomboys and played with other boys instead. I think this pressure also happens in adult life because people percieve women who speak their minds as brutal and harsh whereas men who do the same are regarded as thinkers and critics.

Spivak does seem to be backtracking on her argument that the subaltern cannot be heard. I was critical of her argument in the first place and now I am even more. “Internalized gender perceived as ethical choice is the hardest roadblock for women the world over” I think this quote simply means that women are made to fit the mold of a “woman” which is innocent, sweet, kind, gentle and this is internalized gender is mistaken as an ethical choice. This situation creates difficulty for women to overcome their gender boundaries. Women have to try to break this mold. I also think that we shouldn’t forget that men have this problem too. Men are forced to be rough, tough, and insensitive and as soon as they show a glimmer against these characteristics they are mocked.