EngW - 1102 - Fall 2007

Out of the four stories we read, “After the Race� definitely seems like the “weak link�. Of the four stories, it was the most boring. I read the entire story, and then had to go back because nothing “stuck�. I had not retained anything that I had just read.
I was a bit confused as to the role the lady played in “Two Gallants�. When Corley got a gold coin from her in the end, I didn’t really understand what that meant, or what was supposed to happen next. The abrupt ending leaves you wanting more.

I would call “After the Race� a weak link because it didn’t really seem to go anywhere. It certainly would not fit Barth’s definition of story.
I was also confused by “Two Gallants� and don’t really know what was going on. So really, any ending would have been a surprise to me.
Joyce shifts point of view in “The Boarding House� by first giving us a description of what the character is doing before letting us into their thoughts. In a short six pages we learn every character’s deepest secrets.

“After the Race� definitely seems different. It seemed like Joyce was giving us too much information about each character in one short story. I got a little lost when I was reading it and Artiera is right, nothing stuck. It was pretty boring and I didn’t really get much out of reading it. If I were to revise this story I would focus on one of the characters and maybe focus on how they relate to the others.
The surprise ending in “Two Gallants� wasn’t that great of a surprise especially because I didn’t get it. So the girl gives him a coin?? Did she pay him to go away? I suppose it would be more effective if you know what Joyce means by this.

Like the people who commented before me, I would also say that "After The Race" was pretty weak. Jimmy wasn't really very interesting. There was nothing wrong with him. I mean to say he had no trait that made him dynamic, he never changed. The story just went on about him hanging out with his friends, getting drunk, and thinking he would later regret losing money. There wasn't any conflict in the story either. So I would say it was weak.

I liked the Eveline story best because the girl was really conflicted about leaving home. She seemed genuinely torn between leaving her home life, which basically sucked, and going off with this guy. The end was really good too, when she decides she can't go with him and just accepts that she has to live that life.

The trend of the stories seemed to be that they were centered around people's conflict regarding members of the opposite sex (with the exception of "After the Race." Eveline dealt with the girl torn between her family and the man, Two Gallants dealt with a man trying to get stuff from this woman, and seeing whether or not he could, and The Boarding House had to do with a guy torn between marriage and "freedom." The theme among them was conflict caused by relationships with other people.

Like you guys said, "After the Race" was a wash. Jimmy was too flat to care about. Unfortunatly, I have no idea how to fix him. Let's say I'll... make him more interesting? Give him depth? And now I'll just switch topics without having to actually give any examples, since my characters are all really flat too...

Eveline was all psyched to ditch her crappy life and then threw it all away at the end. My question is: WHY?! What made her stay? Was it guilt? (Dublin=> Ireland=> Catholic=> Guilt... this snow balls pretty fast...) If "She must escape!" then why doesn't she? Why does she go all "passive, like a helpless animal"?

Jamie is right. What's the conversion rate of gold coins to whatever the gallents wanted? The surprise was lost on me because I just didn't get it. It's like "The Sisters" part une. I need the non-newspaper edition with lots of details to figure out "The Gallants"

Just to get things going, "After the Race" was really weak. It didn't really go anywhere, and, yeah, Jimmy...not so interesting.

That being said, I do think the story did fit in well with the other three. I had a hard time reading these stories since my mind kept wondering, but to me, it feels like all the stories were about...being somewhat lost in a sense. Like, the characters aren't really sure of what they're doing, but they're doing it anyways because it's all they know. If that makes any sense.

That's what really kept the stories together in my mind. That feeling of being lost and unsure. I think Joyce capture that emotion very well. Most of the characters (yes, even Jimmy) were very believable when it came to their sense of...self-un-knowingness.

I think it's easy to take from Joyce's stories what you want to take. It's easy to see what you want to see and easy to not see what you don't. I just read Tony's comment again, and it just struck me that, yeah, all the stories involved conflict with the opposite sex. I, however, hadn't even given that a thought. Interesting.

Joyce's "After The Race" was a boring read because there wasn't really as much story as there was description. Joyce described this and described that, but didn't really take the story anywhere interesting in the process. For the reason that it didn't lead anywhere for me, the reader, it is Joyce's weakest story I've read thus far. If I were to change anything, I would make a clearer conflict and resolution amongst the characters. Granted, there doesn't have to be a change and resolution to make a story interesting. Joyce's "After the Race" seems to be more a memory than an actual story, and the memory seemed too insignificant to Joyce and myself to be interested in.

I would have to agree that "After the Race" was the weakest of the four stories we read. It lacked what Joyce's other stories had, and I do think that Jimmy lacked depth.

I would agree with Mike that Joyce seemed to describe a lot of what was happening, but the story in itself was rather boring. I would add conflict between the characters, but also make the reader(s) feel for a character(s). I didn't find myself attached to any of them, and therefore could not get interested in what I was reading.

With reading Eveline, I was left wondering what made her change her mind and stay home in a life she hated, vs.going with Frank. I was excited for her, until the end.

And in "Two Gallants", what happened with that girl... was she supposed to be a prostitute, a girlfriend, was he going to propose?? I guess I was confused with that, too.

I would have to agree with the previous posts. "After the Race" was a dull read, nothing "stuck", and I can see why Joyce called it his weak link. All of the characters were described in the same way a main character might be, and that just caused me to be confused over who was who. I guess I was pretty much lost due to the overkill of details and the lack of a conflict.

The ending of "Two Gallants" was confusing. I just didn't get it. I agree with Marlene, Where's the non-newspaper version? I feel like both "Two Gallants" and "After the Race" could've been easy to read and enjoyable stories if they had been revised more, flushed out the confusion, add/subtract details, etc.

As for "The Boarding House" and its point of view... It seems to shift from the three "main" characters throughout the story. From Mrs Mooney to Mr Doran to Polly. It's done, as Ronnie said, by giving a description of the character which leads us inside their head. This creates an interesting layer to the story. By presenting a conflict and letting the reader know every involved character's thoughts, it makes it more complex.

The short stories do seem to fit together. They all have characters that are ordinary people, and I think that as readers we can see a little piece of Ireland through them.

‘The Race’, though it was partially interesting, maybe was a better story in the context of Ireland were that race is a notable event and maybe the air around it there adds more to the story than I can understand. Also, there is a lot of great detail and I saw it as well written, but I agree that it needed to have more story. I was shocked when I admitted this because normally I love stories that seem to do little more than describe a moment but make it utterly real with description. This story had the room for plot but seemed to let it slip by.

And the two gallants I think actually made me realize more why ‘The Race’ was the weak link but also how the stories all fit together. This story really made me see how the stories were all connected by the idea of confused people who are just in the prime stages of figuring out life. Gee- somehow I think I can relate. I did have some trouble reading it the first time through because there definitely were parts that were not sticking- I thought I was tired but after reading what other people thought, maybe it wasn’t just me. I think this may be another case where a better idea of the writers background and context would help immensely.

We discussed a lot about this in class already, but no worries. We can go in further more. :)

I believe the surprised ending in "Two Gallants" definitely makes a big impact. Throughout the story, the reader suggests that something may happen. This whole story takes place in night. The reader really only sees 'dark' things (in a literal term). The very ending, where the coin shows up, is a sudden contrast in what's happening. When the reader is so used to the dreariness of a city (even when we get to the part where Lenehen gorges himself in green peas), we think 'dark' or something of little color. The coin's contrast definitely brings a surprise to you since you are given this 'ominous' feeling throughout the story. Intriguing and definitely effective. "Two Gallants" would be deemed ineffective without a surprise ending (in my opinion).

I realized how all of these stories tend to had the type of endings where it's finished but unfinished all at the same time. It's the type of ending where you wish something had changed between the characters (and a good change at that too), but it turns out nothing transformed and we're still grasping the concept that Dublin is...just...plain old Dublin. Things just go back to normal, which makes it a finished ending, but oh, going back to the norm means living that dreadful life the characters were living once before. The endings are finished yet unfinished all at the same time.

I agree with what Marlene was saying about Eveline, that guilt was her main reason to stay behind. I think a sense of family ties is important too, in such a short story (both literal length and time frame) a lot of space is given to Eveline's family, far more than is given to Frank. And as to why she suddenly became so passive after she felt that she had to get out, I think she lacked the facility to make decisions. Maybe this is too large of an assumption, but it seemed to me that she had very little control over her life. And the decision to leave family and country is a very big one. Maybe after such a long time of passivity, her decision-making muscle atrophied.

I also like what Lou said about the way Joyce uses color to set the tone and emphasize the surprise in "Two Gallants." It's a cool stylistic concept.

For me, the thread that tied all these stories together was entrapment. All the characters were being suppressed by something, duty, poverty, marraige. And I think that ties into what Chelsea was saying about how all the characters had a sense of "un-selfknowingness." Maybe if they'd been stronger people they could have escaped?

I think that the stories all had similar themes of being stuck in Dublin, and they each had a similar sense of dread. An attachment to family and being held back by family, I thought pervaded both "Eveline" and "The Boarding House". To a certain extent I feel that Jimmy's father kind of holds Jimmy back in "After the Race", simply because he seems like a spoiled boy. I think that all of the stories contained people dreaming of a better life.

I agree with what most people said about "After the Race". I agree with all the people that thought it lacked character depth and had to much description of what was happening. I think some of Jimmy's depth is implied though. I think we get more of his character from the situation he is in, than any description of him.

I only understood the ending of "Two Gallants" because we discussed it in class. I think it was effective, and it was sad for the woman they were cheating out of money. It gave a strong sense of how ugly and desperate Dublin could be.

The shifting views in "The Boarding House" gave the big picture of what was going on. I think it added a lot of depth to the family. You know that it isn't just about a repressed daughter but also a mother who has to raise a child with a loser father. This is achieved by Joyce moving through the boarding house and settling on a physical description which leads into looking through a character's point of view. I almost felt that he was following the characters with a camera.

"After the Race," generally was not so different from the other stories. Joyce's main themes were still apparent. His writing was just more detailed oriented than usual.

After the discussion about the "Two Gallants," the point of the story was more clear. No need to reiterate.

Common themes in these stories were feelings being stuck, and financial woes. Many characters in his stories had specific motives which drove them and the plot. Those motives; however, also dragged them back to where they started.

One thing I noticed that all these stories have in common is a pretty awful portrayal of Irish men. In Eveline, the girl's father is portrayed as more or less a jerk. In After the Race, Jimmy is a character to be pitied in comparison to the marvelous Frenchmen; in Two Gallants, the men are swindlers whose physical features are not attractive at all (to say the least) and in The Boarding House, Mrs. Mooney's husband is a violent drunk while Mr. Dolan sleeps with the lady who provided him shelter's daughter. Great guys, all of 'em.

What I noticed that all the stories had in common was a feel of being stuck in Dublin. No matter how hard one may try like Eveline, they just can't leave the place, even if they want to. Also as mentioned a little earlier, trouble with money seems to be a common theme as well.
I did not feel like many others here though, I thought that After The Race fit fine with the rest of the stories. While Two Gallants was a bit out of place. Although after the class discussion that story made a lot more sense. Still it seemed far more dark of a story than the others. Stealing from the maid is just the lowest of lows.
Which brings me to a final theme I've noticed between all the stories, there seems to be at least one person with bad morals in each one.

The ''young adult'' feature of Dubliners is meant to be read as a whole, and I think I might have taken a lot more away from it had I not read a little Friday afternoon and the rest on Monday night. The main narrative that strings the four stories we read together is, as discussed in class, the idea of being young, stuck in Dublin, and—in one way or another—a little hopeless. All parties are doing something they don't want to do, or shouldn't do, and all parties are up to their ears in expectations they cannot meet. Dublin and elsewhere, that seems like a pretty close description of the lives of a lot of ''young adults''—except Joyce's are all quite a bit darker.
''After the Race'' was, indeed, the weak link in this section. It is difficult for me to see how anyone could like it, so Joyce's displeasure with the piece is . . . understandable. I read it in a trance state, almost, just waiting for a word that implied that something interesting was happening or about to happen. But nothing did! Jimmy didn't seem to have much depth (though it was easy to sympathize with him—even when he blew all his money). I can't think of how to revise it, so I guess throwing it out would be the only thing I can think to do with it.

"The Boarding House" was definitely my favorite of all of the stories that we read in Dubliners. And I think it was mainly because of the POV shifts, which I thought were masterfully done and helped reveal bits and pieces of the stories in an atypical way.

By switching narrators, Joyce allows for different aspects to be revealed throughout the course of the story that certain characters never would have known because they were thoughts of another player in the action.

He starts off with a distinct scene with a new character and then through their actions digs deeper into their mind until the reader is not at all surprised when we find we know their thoughts just like the character before.

I think we have a pretty definite limited third person POV by the end of each character's section, just because there is little to no outside interaction that allows for a more distant third person narrator than anything other than a close third person with the thoughts of each character.

I thought the story’s ending was indeed effective. The ending underlines the downright disgusting nature of Corely. By being able to con a poor serving girl into stealing a coin from her master. More interestingly might be the way we view “surprise� endings. Our modern understanding tend to be more dramatic, and maybe more or a plot twist than a surprise.

You can view an animated, narrated version of the Boarding House here:
http://www.adamsmithacademy.org/The_Boarding_House.html

and there are more animated classics at:
http://www.adamsmithacademy.org

You can view an animated, narrated version of the Boarding House here:
http://www.adamsmithacademy.org/The_Boarding_House.html

and there are more animated classics at:
http://www.adamsmithacademy.org

Great article, and rich in comments too.. I have found many insights and influenced by them.. Thanks!

I read a lot of stories every now and then but i did not have the chance to read the story your talking about. Maybe i will check it out, if i have time. Thanks!

I read a lot of stories every now and then but i did not have the chance to read the story your talking about. Maybe i will check it out, if i have time. Thanks!

I read a lot of stories every now and then but i did not have the chance to read the story your talking about. Maybe i will check it out, if i have time. Thanks!