Rhetoric 1101

Well Erin, I think that if those kids who didn't stand up to pledge allegiance to the flag had a valid excuse for not standing (like if it is against their religious beliefs etc) then it is ok (in my opinion). I guess some people just don't approve of the idea of standing up for a piece of cloth (as some people consider the flag), so if it is against their values I guess it's ok. An argument could be that America is free country and no one is required to pledge allegiance to the flag if they feel it is offensive to them.

it is true that america is a free country, but i think that if people are going to live here and have the ability to be free that they can atleast show alittle patriotism by standing for a few seconds once a week. they shouldnt have to say it if they dont want, but i still think that they should show alittle respect for all the people that faught for this country so that they could have freedom, it is extremely disrespectful not too! i should hope that people that come to our country and live here and get all the benfits of living here that even if there religion says they shouldnt they can atleast stand up, oh and does anyone know any specific religions that would prohibit someone from standing up for the pledge, if you do please comment back i am curious

in high school we never said the pledge until after 9-11. then we said it once a week. that was my senior year of high school and i remember there being a few kids that wouldn't stand up. i also thought it was very disrespectful. here we are living in this great country with so many things at our finger tips and we're to full of ourselves to stand up and show a little respect. i know a lot of people have a hard time with the "one nation under God" part but i had some friends that just wouldn't say that part but they would say the rest.
i know that this is all purely my opinion. but, i have a boyfriend in the marines and several friends in the army. i know that if this country went to war i would put my life on the line in second to protect it in order to uphold the life that we all to often forget to be thankful for.

i know that there are many differing opinions in this country. but that's what makes this country so great. i don't think that say the pledge is asking people to read the bible, it is instead asking people to honor, show respect and say that they will protect this country and all the ideals that allow them to be who they are.

Hi erin! This is an interesting issue...as I mentioned previously I guess some people feel it offensive that they have to pledge allegiance to the flag...by the way, my comment does not necessarily reflect my opinion on whether or not standing up for the pledge is right or wrong..it's just my guess about those people's feelings.

You said in your comment that these people "should show alittle respect for all the people that faught for this country so that they could have freedom"..someone could argue simply "Defend What Freedom?" meaning America's freedom was never under jeoprady that our troops had to defend it...America isn't under attck, and American's freedom is not being jeopradized for the troops to go and DEFEND it...our troops are overseas, fighting other countries "bad" regimes, they aren't defending our freedom...

That is one argument someone could use to refute your claim (and again, I stress that this is not a reflection of my opinion, its just an example of an argument someone could make agaisnt your claim).

Oh and another thing, I didn't know that the kids who didn't stand up were not "Americans"...you said

"i should hope that people that come to our country and live here..."

By this statement are you directing your claim that people should stand up for the pledge at "immigrants"? What about "Americans" who do not stand up for the pledge?? You didn't mention them in your comment, you only mentioned "people that come" to the U.S...What if I said that I know several Americans who do not feel that pledging allegiance to the flag reflects their patriotism (it is not a matter of religious beliefs to them, just a matter of them feeling that standing up for the pledge is offensive)? They are not people who came to the U.S..they are Americans, born here, lived here all their life etc etc...so there is an ambiguity in your claim...maybe you could explain a little more.

in my experiance in high school, the only people that didnt stand were those that were immigrants, not americans that were born here, so that is all i can talk about because i have yet to experiance anything different and that is what my blog was about so that is why it is centered toward immigrants that do not stand for the pledge. in this blog, i was not talking about people that have lived here all their life and still dont stand for the pledge (which i think is disguisting), i was talking about immigrants who dont stand for the pledge which is an entirely different issue. alia, if you would like to make a post on that topic, feel free, because i would love to hear your opinions!

Hey Erin! I am glad that you are open to hear other's opinions ! That's a great thing and it proves that you are not narrow minded (like someone we all know =Chris)
*ahem*..yeah so anywayz I was just wondering coz I wasnt sure if you meant like immigrants or Americans or whatever..that's why I asked...thanks for clearing it up!

Okay, I'm not in this class but this issue is very important to me. A person who doesn't believe in any god, let alone the capital "G" god, shouldn't be shamed into standing up. The religious pledge of allegiance does not represent them. I think by sitting down a person is doing a very patriotic thing in expressing the freedoms that our country was founded on and protesting this blurring of church and state. There is no question our veterans deserve our thanks for their sacrifices, but I prefer to do my thanking in person, and not by reciting a prayer to the flag.

Tim's comment is a perfect example of the point I was trying to make in my first comment to this post...That's exactly what I mean...that some people do not feel that their patriotism is shown by standing up to a piece of cloth (the flag)...and obviously for people who do not believe in a god, the pledge doesn't represent them just as Tim put it...and good point about the separation of Church and State (it seems important that this country was founded on "protesting this blurring of church and state" yet the pledge is so religious and hence does not represent people who do not believe in a god.)
Good points Tim...

i still think that people shouldnt have to say the words of the pledge (which wouldnt make it against their religion or anything) but should atleast have the common courtesy to stand up. i really take offence to calling the flag of the United States "a cloth", does anyone else?

I personally think that people should stand up for the flag, also it is not just "cloth" as some people say..which I must add is very disrespectful. I mean is it that hard to stand up. I also think that people do not have to say if the don't want to. I also think that standing up for the flag that represents freedom, that people died for, is very patriotic. I consider people who don't stand unpatriotic which is frowned upon in our world today. I understand that people need to respect other people but at the same time if you came to this country you need to respect us also and our tradtions. Thank you for taking the time to listen to my take on things.

everyone here has some good points, and it all goes to show that we all have differing opinions and we are entitled to that. it also goes to show that no matter how much we clarify or explain or promote our points of view, not everyone is going to agree with them. and that is ok.

What Janelle is saying is true...Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and it's okay if not everyone agrees with everyone else.

Oops..I spelled my name wrong on that last comment...oh well...I just wanted to clear something up...as I've mentioned SEVERAL times so far, when I talk about for example the flag and I use the words "a cloth" or piece of "cloth", that is not necessarily what I think of the flag ok? I am not trying to be insulting here, and by saying a cloth I am saying that that is what SOME people consider it (not necessarily me). So no offense to anyone, the above is not an expression of my opinion, it is just what I think some people would say as an excuse for not standing up for the pledge...okay? I hope everyone understands me here, that I am not trying to be insulting or disrespectful. Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

Okay, a few follow-ups. Yes, everyone has a right to their opinion. I even respect your right to have an opinion that goes against reason and evidence. But others hold the right to consider you irrational and marginalize you for doing so. Your responses to my original post do not address the problems with the pledge. It is discriminatory. I will stand up for it when it is not discriminatory. It's not a matter of courtesy - I think the most courteous thing to do would be to have the pledge be inclusive, not exclusive. I could stand up and skip the words "under god" but that is avoiding the issue. If you find a finger in your salad at a nice restaurant, you don't ignore it just because you want to be courteous and because it's a nice restaurant. No one will ever know there's a problem unless you voice your opinion. This is not just true in this issue, but for all issues!

We had a discussion about comments in class today, and there are varying comfort levels with regard to comments left by people who aren't in this class. Comments on this post are now closed.