FamiLee Life

Hi - that was an interesting read.

However, while I was reading it, I kinda couldn't help feeling sorry for the white gentleman...

There's a difference between someone who's genuinely racist and/or insensitive, and someone who means well but doesn't realize his attempts at conversation could be deemed prejudicial.

This may have been a good opportunity for you to smile and (in a friendly non-accusing way) explain to him how some people might take offense; that he seems to be implying a "visible minority" might not be as american as a white person. Or that Asians can necessarily be identified based on their looks - although there are traits in many countries that someone *could* use to guess their heritage (ie red hair = irish or scottish. blonde and light complexion = slavic country, etc).

Keep the tone of the conversation light and you may have been able to enlighten him, instead of going on the offensive which likely embarrassed or angered the guy. And that would likely override any chance he'd have to be made more aware...

Yes, it means you'd have to suck it up and curb your own anger. But in the end it would be for the greater good as the situation may have resolved itself in a way that would've had you in a better mood to enjoy the show... and he'd have something to think about :)

Just my 2 cents.

The guy seemed friendly a bit ignorant but friendly. I'm with danni on this one.

It's easy to tell someone how they "should" respond when confronted with racism or other forms of injustice. I've received similarly helpful guidance from blog readers. But from my perspective, Rich has the right to make up his own mind and feel how he feels about his own experiences; he is not obligated to assume the role of teacher for every ignorant person in the world, nor to "smile in a friendly non-accusing way."

Rich's story reminds me strongly of a recent speech by Michael Omi (co-author of _Racial Formation in the United States_, a basic text in many ethnic studies courses) at the University of Minnesota. In his speech on "colorblindness," Omi pointed out that the dominant discourse on race in America today promotes the idea that racism consists of individual racist acts, which represent deviations from a norm. This conception masks the larger historical structures of racism that continue to affect our lives.

We all deal with ignorant or downright offensive people every day. But what is really maddening is not their individual actions, it's the fact that those actions reveal deeper historical structures of injustice. For many members of our society, life would be more comfortable if these structures (and the pain they produce) stayed hidden.

If you think you would feel or behave differently than Rich in the same situation, that's fine. But I wonder why it is so important that Rich be kind and gentle, and not be offended. As far as I can tell from reading the post, Rich didn't say or do anything overtly hostile, he just asked the "white gentleman" to stop talking and kept his inner feelings to himself. Now, by posting the story on this blog, Rich has in fact given a lot of people "something to think about."

thanks for the comment, danni. it's true he was ignorant but the initial comment and those that followed are still examples of prejudicial/racist behavior meant to privilege whiteness above other races.

in this context, there was no reason for him to even bother to phenotype profile. if he wanted to be friendly, he could have simply said "hi." instead, he chose to focus on my race and make xyz assumptions. what is the underlying reason for it? if he wanted to draw attention to the whiteness of the audience, he could have said that. instead, he presumed to know more than me about who i am.

i also found it interesting that you focus more on feeling sorry for him and telling me that i need to curb my anger to make it a more constructive dialogue. sometimes, it's better to not be the "nice" asian american who is educating others. in this regard, it should be white people needing to to educate white people. i just want to live my life but because i can't just live my life, i am fully justified to challenge him. it is my right.

of course there are times to pick and choose battles but this was not a battle. it was my right to respond to his insult and further to question his assumptions. i'm tired of having to always be "nice" and his prejudice and ignorance didn't warrant it.

I disagree that it is always up to the person of color who is being subjected to ignorant and/or racist acts to politely and "nicely" educate the offender. To me, a huge issue is that this man felt he could keep on explaining why he wasn't being offensive. It was HIS job to stop and ask why what he said was offensive,

I also think that by stratifying types of acts as being racist vs. being just "ignorant" or "uneducated" that we make it okay for people to continue saying and behaving in offensive ways. Yes there are degrees of racist behavior that falls on a continuum and should all be examined.

We have every right to be angry when people are being racist.

The crux of the conflict seems to be White Guy's claim that he could tell Asians of different ethnicities apart. Just to be clear, are you saying that he couldn't do it? Or that no one can do it? Because saying that no one can tell one Asian ethnic group from another would seem to be the same as saying that all Asians look alike.

Rob...what Richard said was clear. He was angry about Mr. White Man's orientalist interrogation about his ethnicity. Anyone would be. It was intrusive and dehumanizing. No person likes being treated like an object, and Asian Americans shouldn't have to feel exposed and under scrutiny everywhere they step out into society.

Richard, I'm sorry you had to go through this. Every person of color has had a similar experience---I can tell you some stories myself---but I'm well aware of white folks tendency toward exoticizing Asian folk. I can't know what that experience is like. As an African American, the oppression I experience is similar in many ways, but not the same.

And no, you should NOT be nice and accommodating when people are racist to you. That is inexcusable. You were more patient than that man deserved. If he doesn't understand that his behavior is white supremacist, tough. It's not your job to educate him.

Only a White or White-washed person wouldn't see that as racist. White people feel like they can tell other cultures everything about everything. Well they can't. I know they think it makes us feel better that they try to be genuinely interested in various other cultures but it doesn't. I don't care if they ever learn another thing about me and my people cuz the fact of the matter is I'm still gonna be here regardless. My existance does not hinge on them getting to know me better.

I agree that it is not up to the person of color to be the kind, gentle educator. I am proud that Rich was able to stand up for himself and Asian Americans and ask the kind of questions that made the white man question his own assumptions. It's important for ignorant, racist people to understand their questions are frustrating, maddening and angering! If we POC just smile and try to educate them they won't have a true measure of how inappropriate it is to treat someone in this manner.

Also, the white man wasn't respectful. Not only in the questions he asked, but also in that he continued to persist after Rich asked him to stop. Because he was so intent on proving his innocence, he wasn't able to listen to what Rich was actually saying and instead continued far beyond polite and respectful.

It's not the vitriolic racism that's the most insidious—that we can see and deal with more easily—it's the well-intentioned white people who can often have the most lethal racism.

The problem is that he viewed you as an object to gratify his desires as opposed to a living actor. He was looking to get affirmation about how wonderful and worldly and knowledgeable he was. Unfortunately you refused to play along. Didn't you know that as a person of color, your role in life is to be feel-good exotic background material for White people's display of erudition? :^P

I'm not familiar with all the research, but doesn't some of it suggest that taking an active role against racism is beneficial? In any event, reading your post was extremely beneficial to me. You rock.

I agree that White Guy was disrespectful. But in the exchange below, Rich Lee seems to be reacting to WG's claims about his ability to distinguish Asians.

WG: Well, no. But I try to learn how to tell the difference between Asians.
Me: You should really stop talking before you put your foot deeper and deeper into your mouth.

I'd say Rich reacted to both the implication that all Asians look alike and the implication that WG could tell Asians apart (as well as the overall presumption). So I'm curious about Rich's thinking. Does he believe that some people can tell Asians of different ethnicities apart?

thanks everyone for the comments and support. as to rob's last comment, i was reacting to the fact that he singled me out because of my race and ethnicity.

WG: Ah, finally someone Asian. I was wondering why there were no Japanese here tonight.

first, he was wrong in that i am not japanese. i am a 2nd generation korean american. second, he was objectifying and orientalizing me. then, as the conversation continued, other problems emerged from his comments.

Oh man - what a post! I was seething about a two-racist-incidents-in-one-hour evening, and this is just icing on the cake. I am so glad that you stood up for yourself and didn't act nice - I am learning to do the same, though my middle-class female conditioning is tough to break through. Zero-tolerance is the way to go, for me - I don't think many White people hear me when I'm nice, but they sure hear me when I get mad.

The thing that set me off a couple of days ago? Well, first a guy tried to pick me up by asking me if I wanted to hear an Asian joke. A few minutes later another asked me if I was Chinese, and when I said NEVER to ask a person of Asian descent if they were Chinese, he persisted in asking me "what I was," as though I was secretly a llama with a really good human costume.

People shouldn't always think that being conciliatory to racists is the high road - it's sometimes alot harder to own your anger and stand your ground than to make nice and explain your ethnic background.

wow, i'm really enjoying this discussion.

my first reaction was somewhat similar to the first replies: that this guy was not trying to be mean, but i see all the points you all are raising too.

i don't think we should go in the other direction and say this is the *better* reaction though. maybe it's good that we all react differently--keep 'em guessing. haha. but really, as someone who is used to being around Asian Americans and hasn't had to put up with stuff like this time and again, i think i don't get angry as fast at some things. like i don't mind people asking my race/ethnicity b/c i've been asked that all my life and it just had a different vibe at home. but i can definitely see why it pisses some folks off. and maybe i'm just naive; maybe with experience, i'll be able to read people's intentions more easily and will get more pissed.

anyways, from the blogs and all, i thought POC from the midwest were more likely to get annoyed at stuff like this, to be sick of answering the same questions and always being the only non-white in the room. but in the past few weeks, i've seen one of my classmates, an African American who's spent her whole life in the midwest, be put into this sort of spokesperson role. honestly it made me kind of uncomfortable, like it was just so weird for people to be asking her all these questions, but she knows she's doing it and she thinks it's better than people being ignorant. so that threw a nice wrench in what i thought i was learning.

There are PLENTY of regional differences about how whiteness gets codified and played out. And all of us pocs in the Midwest know only too well that a White Liberal WHO THINKS THEY KNOW is often much worse than a White bigot who couldn't give a rat's a**. Because the White Liberal thinks that you are on the planet to reflect the image of THE GOOD WHITE PERSON back to them, and the minute that you resist this role is the minute that our ghetto pass to the pretty little multiculti world called Middle Class America is revoked.

This post and its responses were both interesting and instructive to me, because I feel that people's responses to this incident and how Rich handled it reflect their orientation towards whiteness to a large extent. Those people who are a little bit to very invested in perpetuating everything that whiteness is about: objectifying and commodifying brown bodies, spreading the language of secular humanism ("We're all human at the core, despite our differences") like a bad VD across the earth, creating a palatable and safe multiculti universe where ethnicities are as open, accessible and identifiable as enchiladas and samosas -- thought that Rich's response was over-the-top. And those people who have had it with playing nicey-nice about whiteness (which really, in the end only perpetuates its power and longevity, by obscuring it) support him.

For me, I am done trying to educate or save people like WG, who are so invested in whiteness that they don't even know it exists. Now, I might suggest that Rich's response did not do anything to change WG's perspective, but it didn't seem to me that that was his goal for the evening. He was just trying to go out with his friends and support his SO and his friends at Mu, he didn't sign up for no Demystifying White Guy Seminar.

And along the lines of us poc preserving our health, I would say that we definitely do have to choose our battles in situations like this. Because we have higher rates of hyper tension, depression, anxiety, all that stuff than White people -- even controlling for class and gender and other factors. And numerous studies have linked racial discrimination as being a huge indicator for bad health (I was just reading something about a U Mich study the other day). So I probably wouldn't have even gotten into it with the dude, because frankly, I don't care enough, I'm not going to change him, and I'm not trying to raise my blood pressure. But if that's how Rich deals with racism, and that's what works for him, I'm behind him 100%.

It is sad this had to happen, Richard. Every time I read something like this I understand how inherently difficult the issue of racism is. Reading these comments is also quite telling. Unless you have at some time been on the receiving end of such comments, you can never never understand their true effects . I really don't see any solution to this except may be strengthening your psychological defenses. But then I can be wrong....

I've lived in China for the past 4 months and I'm continually being mistaken for a Chinese person even though I was born in SE Asia. I dress American, I'm not thin like most of the Chinese here, and my hair is boyishly short unlike the more typical girls here, so it is strange that they sometimes find it really difficult to accept I'm not Chinese at all. There's a fascination in the United States with the idea of being able to identify Asian races when my experiences abroad has taught me that there is so much physical diversity within each Asian ethnicity, rendering the idea of identifying people rather ineffective. I've seen Chinese people who look like what Americans assume Malaysians, Koreans, Thai, etc look like. True there are tendencies for how people look, but you can never play hard and fast -- and I don't even think you can even be generally sure.

Also it's interesting that people, especially white people, are so afraid to be called racist. So instead of focusing on what is wrong, what should be addressed, they're too busy trying to prove they're 100% not racist. I care a lot about race issues, but at same time I do know that I hold levels of racism inside of me. Instead of trying to cover it up or deny it, I recognize it and actively question my thoughts and actions so that I can try to behave in a manner consistent with my beliefs and ideals about diversity. If you need to assure yourself and others that you're not racist, how deeply have you delved?

I found you through Cross' blog. The way this all seems to have gone down does strike me as less than graceful on the dude's part, but (and I said this in Cross' blog too), can you imagine a situation where this wouldn't be offensive?

I ask because my husband is Hawaiian, and people are not very good at remembering that Polynesians exist.

Because of this, people guess that he's Mexican, Filipino, Indian, basically everything but Polynesian.

Whenever people "guess" properly, he is, to an extent, impressed and even a little relieved.

Of course, there are factors missing from the scenario. The American/non-American assumption, for example.

And the fact that people feel the need to ask at all is, though not odd, regrettable. Certainly, though, there must be a graceful way to find out about a person's ethnic heritage.

I've never posted about these topics before, so please excuse me if I fumble a bit. Babble.

I think Rich did the right thing---he let the man know that what he was saying was inappropriate. Whether or not what the man did was based on racism (or to what degree) seems to be something one could only find out after having spent some time with him. I'm guessing that it reflected what someone called an "exoticism" of Asians, for sure. He was an idiot for saying what he said. Who knows to what degree the dumb f**k is racist. I know plenty of white racists. But would it have been as offensive if the black woman had asked Rich the same question?

As a White Liberal, I feel absolutely helpless (and sad and physically tired for some reason) after reading the responses to this post. I lived in Japan and I have traveled to Ghana and other countries and all I can say is that once you're perceived (visibly) as a foreigner in another country, there is no limit to what people will say. And it's much worse and blatant in those countries, believe me---it's beyond objectification---it's pointing and staring. And I wasn't just a tourist, I lived there, and this affected me on a daily basis. Obviously it is a different situation in America, where so many citizens can claim so many ancestries, where we pride ourselves on our diversity and egalitarian society. But the way some of these responses have referred to "white people" and "whiteness" has struck me as simplistic, small-minded, and offensive. But that's the plight of the minority, I guess---in striving to avoid objectification, you end up objectifying everyone that isn't you. And the plight of the majority, I guess, is to never quite be free ... at least, of one's guilt. And this is another indication of my inexperience with discussing these matters...are we allowed to generalize so broadly (translated: stereotype) about white people because we're discussing this in the context of America, where white people are the majority? Or simply because this is the 'reality' of the situation? I took a class on intercultural communication while I was in Japan with a room full of Japanese, Thai, Korean, German, Haitian, French, Ghanain ... people, and no one would EVER have said such insulting things about white people. I know that I'm confusing the issue by comparing INTERcultural communication to INTRAcultural communication, but I can't help it, having lived abroad, that's how I see the world. I can't claim to understand what it feels like to be racially prejudiced against in America (I could actually think of some SPECIFIC instances, having gone to school in predominantly black neighborhoods, but not an underlying, latent bigotry, of course) or even the degree to which racism is inherent to our society---I'm not capable (allowed?) of understanding that. But I listen to my friends that are minorities and I try to understand. I listen to my Korean friends who distrust Japanese people. I listen to my Japanese friends who incorrectly refer to all South Americans as Mexicans. And I listen to my African American friends debating who "real" black people are---as in, immigrants from Somalia or Ethiopia aren't real black people, and all (American) black people just naturally understand that. Maybe I've just managed to surround myself with a rainbow of racists.

But since as a White Liberal I can speak for my entire group, do you have any questions for us that you've been dying to ask? Admonitions? Grievances?

Also, I'm gay. So if you have any questions regarding gayness that you need answered, let me know.

I found Kaying's post very honest and affirming, and I would suggest to her that the reason white people spend so much time assuring others that they are not racist is because they are constantly being accused of it. I guess I would never refer to a black man as a BG because I WOULD consider that racist, or at least, objectifying. Maybe the other bloggers are simply using WG as a short, anonymous name for the white man in the story, but in the context of this discussion, I can't help to understand it as a pejorative moniker. And you're right that we all harbor certain amounts of racism in our minds, but hopefully not in our hearts.

Rich, I applaud your goals and your actions and this post and I think your work is important and relevant, but some (not all) of these responses make me feel like in the end, it will all be in vain. I'm sitting at my computer screen wondering what the hell I was doing.

Ok, first of all, since your ethnicity is Asian (I suspect full-Asian not multiracial Asian) you have no idea how lucky you are. You think this situation is bad for your kind? That's nothing as how bad it is for bi-racial Asians like me (or Euro-Asians). Being Euroasian is tough. It's worse because since most people don't assume you are part-Asian based on physical appearance, they say racist things right in front of you and among your peers assuming that you'll follow the joke and join the laugh. I hate it.

You should just count your blessings and realize how lucky you are that you are pure Asian.

Hi Lily -
You're using alot of words like "purity" and "lucky" for full-Asian people that seem to set up a hierarchy where you're at the bottom. As one mixed person to another, please think about that and don't do yourself - or me - that disservice. I'm not to be pitied for my ethnic heritage, and I don't consider full Asians more "lucky." We each get out own kinds of bullshit, honestly.

You might be considered more "lucky" by some Asians because "most people don't assume you are part-Asian based on physical appearance" and you only are privy to racist remarks rather than being the target of them. Plus, you also have an unparalleled opportunity to call racists out, if they are letting their guard down around you.

Please understand me - I'm not trying to minimize the racism that you or I or any mixed person experiences. Just don't tell me that I'm "unlucky" for being mixed - I am who I am, and that's damn good enough for me.

Emmet, bless you for trying so hard and I mean that sincerely. As to your statement of white people being frequently accused as racist and the disheartment that accompanies that charge -- I sympathise. However (there's always a "but" isn't there?) the white, heterosexual man has been at the top of society's power pyramid for many centuries and any epithet that is slung at them from those of us below is not racist by the mere fact being the WG bestows the power.

Let's see, if I call him Witey (which I have) and any other names and treat him in a discriminatory manner it's next to impossible that I'm going to affect his access to housing, education, employment. If he calls me Chink (which he has and so much worse) and treats me in a discriminatory fashion it's also probable that he can effect my chances to acquire housing, etc.

This is not to negate or play down the hurt feelings that I might cause by calling him names or not inviting him to play with me but it's still not racist by the definition that I am unlikely to have any power to restrict his access to the existing priveliges accorded to him by the fact that he is The White Guy.

I'm multiracial and my mother was part Korean, so I know very well that other cultures and races besides the WG can and are bigoted. However, none of that holds a candle to the fact that it's the WG who determines how the rules are followed.

I feel that we, all people who no longer are satisfied with the status quo, are struggling towards a better society as a whole but the process is clumsy, imperfect, infuriating at times and can be very draining on our hopes. The fact that we get to challenge it on even the most trivial levels is a marker that things are improving.

Twenty years ago I swallowed and accepted that Suzy Wong, Mei Li, Breakfast at Tiffany's, et al, were the public face that the average WG based their perceptions of me upon. Today, I raise my children with the views that Rosie O'Donnell is a nice woman who should be embarrassed that she spoke "ching chong" on television, that there are still many, many ceilings that need to be broken through, that their granparents are products of a time when "oriental" was the polite way to identify someone with our eyes. In other words, we talk about it, point it out, challenge it and try to determine how it affects our lives and our futures. Long way from then, long way to go but at least we're traveling some uncharted paths.

I find it very telling that some of the earlier comments defend the White Man as being nice, if a bit misguided/ignorant. Why is it that the responsibility falls upon the person of colour to educate or try to be understanding when dealing with such offensive and degrading ignorance? The person of colour must bite their tongue and gently explain why the white person has said something that is offensive, but the white person is not expected to question their own actions or think before they open their mouth. I think that given the situation Rich handled himself well. He could have been much meaner about the whole thing.

It takes a lot of strength to be able to confront someone and stick up for yourself. It is extremely difficult to control your tone of voice when you are literally shaking and your heart is beating that hard. For anybody who has had to face discrimination that has attacked or degraded the very core of their being then you know what I'm talking about. I wish it were that easy to remain calm in the face of racism and ignorance but in my experiences the more aware of it you become, the more you react.

I have to agree with Katie. As a fellow Eurasian I can understand that there are certain drawbacks to being mixed race but I can also see the benefits. I don't think anything is accomplished when we sit around trying to trump each other's racist experiences. Where does that get us?

Lolo--
Thanks for responding. You're nice. I'm nice.
I shouldn't have posted in the first place---I just felt hurt and lumped into a group and it was late at night. I got ahead of myself.

There's a great show coming up at the Walker:
http://calendar.walkerart.org/canopy.wac?id=2734

It is not terribly surprising that WG noticed that you are of Asian heritage when you first approached him. An overly forward choice of an ice breaker, but it seems to me that he wasn't trying to be malicious. If his initial attempts at categorization of you as one or another "type" of Asian comes off as coarse, that is understandable. But I think he probably viewed himself as sophisticated and open-hearted and considerate by overtly getting past your general "asian-ness" by trying to whittle the classification down to a finer, more "personal" scale. He may, given the chance, have even gone farther learning about you as a person once he saw that "asian" or "japanese" or whatever is probably not the most informative way to categorize you as an individual. In a similar position (as an overeating WG), I'm not sure I would have reacted as negatively to this awkward moment. But that's just me.

A few years ago, I worked with a German guy on some mutual research. One of the projects took us to rural NW Minnesota, where his thick accent stood out more clearly than it might on the more diverse confines of the U of MN campus. One of the rural characters with whom we met asked my coworker, "what's your background?" My coworker responded, "I'm a geophysicist." "No, I mean, where are you from?...Germany?! My aunt speaks German!" My German friend was unimpressed, as he speaks German, too, and quite well. Obviously, the character focused on my coworker's accent (and corresponding nationality) partly as a defining characteristic, but more as a basis for small talk. It wasn't an interesting topic for my coworker, for whom, by this point in his life, the novelty of being German had worn off, but it is an interesting topic for a guy who may have met only a handful of non-Americans in his life. The rural Minnesotan was "white", as my German coworker is "white". I don't think there was a racial motivation involved, but it was similar in many ways to your experience of being categorized based on a superficial trait. In fact, I'd wager that virtually all of our "first impressions" are based on superficial traits that we have conveniently categorized.

As I see it, such inane conversation starters are considered polite and considerate by many, who may even be mildly curious about the family and ethnic backgrounds of others. Sometimes when meeting new people, I am asked about the national origin of my name. I am a 5th generation American. I have absolutely no connection with the country from which my ancestors brought my family name. But people still ask. When they learn that I can contribute almost nothing to a discussion of Luxembourg, they move on to more personal topics, like the weather, the Vikings, and, when the conversation gets rolling, what I do for a living. Back in college, I started awkward conversations with attractive girls by asking, "what's your major?" I didn't really care if she was a business major. It wasn't a job interview - I just wanted an excuse to talk to her and move on to more interesting topics (like how I might go about having intercourse with her). I suppose the WG in your story just wanted an excuse to talk to you and he assumed (stupidly) that he could appeal to your interests by bringing up your race. The characteristic that initially defines you in his eyes is not the characteristic that defines you in your own mind. I don't see that as racism as much as a case of 'not enough information'.

Anyone -- White or otherwise, self-declared liberal or bigoted -- who wants to learn more about whiteness and how it operates, should pick up this slim volume of excellent and accessible essays:

_White Privilege: Essential Readings on the Other Side of Racism_, Paula S. Rothenberg

Here is a representative quote from the book:
“...culturally encouraged invisibility has been central to the power of whiteness. It has allowed some white people to create a world in their own image and a system of values that reinforces the power and privilege of those who are white people. At the same time, because of its invisibility, it has helped foster the illusion that those who succeed do so because of superior intelligence, their hard work or their drive, rather than, at least in part, their privilege. The power of whiteness is that it gives certain people an advantage without ever acknowledging that this is the case,� pgs. 2-3.

Most people who have benefited from privilege (whether it is White privilege, class privilege, gender privilege, "First World" privilege, heterosexual privilege, able-bodied privilege, or any other) freak out when they are confronted with it, and deny it. I think that that is a very human reaction. But it takes a very special person to actually go beyond that initial reaction, and actually take the time and effort to really LEARN how they, themselves are contributing to the possessive investment in systems of domination like whiteness.

As a P.S. for Emmett: Individual and interpersonal racism is VERY different from structural and institutional racism. In fact, I don't think the two can even be compared in the same sentence. If you don't believe me, look at the persistent and huge wealth gap between African Americans and Whites, which is basically based on 200 years of legalized chattel slavery, and then another 100 years of legalized apartheid. If that could be fixed by a bunch of sincere White people having very close, intimate relationships with Blacks, don't you think that would have happened by now? Unfortunately, it's just a lot more complicated and insidious than that.

The other comment I want to make is that poc are not automatically anti-racist, be default of our skin color. You can be Black and White supremacist (I know plenty who are), and White and Black-identified (again, I know plenty who are as well). It's all about your mindset, orientation, admission and engagement with your own privilege(s), and how you conduct yourself in the world based on them.

Jim –

Thanks for setting us all straight about how Rich misperceived the whole incident. I feel much better about the many times that people have decided to racially profile me now that I know Germans go through the same thing!

“You're Japanese, right? I know you are not Korean and you don't look Hmong� is certainly an interaction on par with your “what’s your major?� In fact, I suspected throughout the whole story that WG was simply angling for Rich’s phone number.

In fact, the tip-off that you understood – empathized, in fact – with our confusion was that people often assume, based on your last name, that you’re from Luxembourg! How silly of them, and how exactly parallel our experiences are!

Luckily, we have European American friends like you who can correct us about these occurrences. The next time someone tries to pick me up by making assumptions about my ethnic heritage, or I get sexually/racially harassed on the street, I won’t consider it racist – it’s “a case of 'not enough information'.�

Katie: Your message is clear despite the sarcasm and contempt. Thank you for clarifying the differences in similarities between our perspectives. Please do remember that, although I am a WG, I am (amazingly) not one of those who sexually or racially harasses you in the street. More importantly, I take issue with the idea, which I inferred from your comment, that members of my identifying group (white, male, etc) can't have a valid opinion on racial matters (unless the opinion is enfused with self-loathing, white-liberal guilt). I am willing to discuss and be educated about my biases and misunderstandings, but the tone I discerned in your witty retort is condescending and exclusionary. This is why well-meaning white Americans, by and large, don't enter these discussions, and why we often make social blunders (or worse) when we find ourselves awkwardly participating in multiracial interactions.

Sorry, in my last comment, I was too busy trying to construct a clever argument with Katie to say what I really wanted to say in response. I want to apologize for implying or saying directly that I believe Rich's response to the situation to be inappropriate, incorrect, too much, etc. Rich's response to the situation may not have been my choice of a response, but that doesn't make it wrong (what do I know?). We are all entitled to respond to a given situation as we see fit given the facts at hand. Sorry for my rash judgement.

Yes Jim, the sarcasm of people of color is why well-meaning White people don't become active anti-racists.

But I'll lay it out straight - your original post contained textbook examples of the way that (usually) White folks attempt to explain away, mitigate, or empathize with POCs' experiences of racism. As with female rape victims, persons of color recounting racist experiences are unlikely to be given the benefit of the doubt.

I have seen other allies "participating in multiracial interactions" in ways that look alot less like doubt and alot more like support.

"...the sarcasm of people of color is why well-meaning White people don't become active anti-racists."

You make a good point (if I'm reading the humorous sarcasm correctly). I only meant to say that when members of my demographic engage in these discussions, even with the best of intentions, it is my view that our opinions, flawed by inexperience as they may be, are invalidated a priori (and often in a rude way) simply because we have inherited what has come to be known as white and (in my case) male privilege. Perhaps I'm too sensitive about this. Most WGs I know are reluctant to enter these discussions with POCs because of fear of saying the wrong thing and being equated with the worst of white racist history. While I am not yet plagued with enough white liberal guilt to consider myself an "active anti-racist", I deeply want to see that my personal dealings with people are as fair and equitable as possible. BTW, my opinion is that (misguided) efforts to become active anti-racist is what leads people like the WG is Rich's story to start these weird conversations.

hi jim,
i appreciate your continued dialogue on this issue. i would say that you are being a bit too generous to these WG who ask me where i am from. in my interactions with you (as compared with them), there is an intangible, genuine quality to your friendliness than to these WG. you have a pretty good grasp at white (and male) privilege and seem more open to understanding how it plays out. these WGs actually seem to laud their privilege over me when they try to engage in discussion. they are not trying to have a conversation so much as show off in an ignorant and arrogant way. when they ask me, where are you from?, to whom does asking such a question benefit? it solely benefits them, not me in any way. i do not think these WGs are trying to be anti-racist. i think they are just being arrogant and show offs.

Another relevant show at the Walker:
http://calendar.walkerart.org/canopy.wac?id=3091

Rich:
Of course, you are correct. Perhaps the reason I seem to be defending, or at least not strongly condemning WG's actions is that I worry that I have been that WG at some point in my past. Since I would rather not see myself as a racist (or an arrogant jerk), I am trying to come up with justifications for what is at the very least rude behavior.

The truth of the matter is that, in similar situations, I may have asked where you were from if you had a foreign-sounding accent in your speech. I would have been curious. I would likely ask a white person with an accent the same question (I've even asked white American southerners that question). I'm not sure if that is considered rude in the same way that WG's unwanted line of questioning was rude. Obviously, your accent isn't what started the conversation in question.

There is a lot of debate here about the question if the WG deserved the response from Rich or not.

The question can be more simple. Do you win more influence with understanding or with insults?

Rich, you don't have to burden yourself with educating the world. You can ignore such people. But when you antagonize them, you don't help them, or yourself, or anyone.

That WG is just living in his own slice of the world and reality. If you aren't going to help him broaden his slice of reality, then its best to quietly pitty his ignorance and move on.

You may not agree, but you di antagonized him when you said, "Excuse me. Do you think we all look the same?". You put him on the defensive. You only upped the ante when you accused him of putting his foot into his mouth. Very little change or good usually happens when people are on the defensive.

Sure, he showed himself to be blissfully unaware of his ignorance, but that is most of the people in this world, of all races. You succeeded in nothing with your approach, except perhaps harming yourself.

And as a side note, I know FOR A FACT that many Asians like to play the "I can tell where people are from" game as well. When playing based purely on facial characteristics, they are usually just as bad at the game as the poor racist WGs. They just happen to often be more sensitive about how they play it.

You were way too touchy and rude. This is not an example of racism unless you want to discuss your negative feelings against the White Guy. The White Guy wasn't being negative. He was trying in a clumsy way to have a conversation and try to find common ground. Had he said something like, "I'm not sitting next to a slant eye." Or something like that, then you would have been justified in being so offensive.