I had a great conversation today with a wikiuser about how turf grabbing and secrecy could greatly hinder the collaborative benefits of the UMWiki project. The chat transcript follows.
| [11:08 AM]<wikiuser> | | morning alex. I've a twiki question if you've a moment |
| [11:51 AM]<alexander> | | go right ahead |
| [11:52 AM]<wikiuser> | | one sec...UMWikiAdmin may have my answer |
| [11:52 AM]<alexander> | | k |
| [11:56 AM]<wikiuser> | | hrm, she disappeared....my question was about using access control |
| [11:56 AM]<wikiuser> | | I am working on the TopSecretOffice information |
| [11:56 AM]<wikiuser> | | and importing the stuff from our wiki over there |
| [11:56 AM]<wikiuser> | | and wanted restricted view on some of what is there |
| [11:56 AM]<alexander> | | okay |
| [11:57 AM]<wikiuser> | | and restricted edit on much |
| [11:57 AM]<alexander> | | you can restrict view and edit in the WebPreferences topic for that web |
| [11:57 AM]<wikiuser> | | the format for Set ALLOWTOPICCHANGE |
| [11:57 AM]<wikiuser> | | entry required per page |
| [11:57 AM]<alexander> | | The basic deal is that you need to create a Group for your users, and give them privs to view / change settings. |
| [11:57 AM]<wikiuser> | | the group is created |
| [11:57 AM]<wikiuser> | | UMWikiAdmin got me that |
| [11:58 AM]<alexander> | | Hokay, so now you configure the Web Preferences. Lemme see if I can find something more specific. |
| [11:58 AM]<wikiuser> | | okie |
| [11:58 AM]<wikiuser> | | thanks |
| [11:59 AM]<alexander> | | http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/WebPreferences |
| [12:00 PM]<alexander> | | that page has a set of User / Group permissions |
| [12:00 PM]<wikiuser> | | okie |
| [12:00 PM]<wikiuser> | | thanks |
| [12:00 PM]<alexander> | | In order to set a preference you'll want to type " * Set PREFERENCE = whatever you like" |
| [12:00 PM]<wikiuser> | | ok |
| [12:00 PM]<wikiuser> | | and that is per page |
| [12:00 PM]<wikiuser> | | ?? |
| [12:01 PM]<alexander> | | three spaces, asterix, space, then "Set ", name of pref, equals, name of value. |
| [12:01 PM]<alexander> | | No, this version of TWiki we're using doesn't allow topic level preferences. |
| [12:01 PM]<alexander> | | That feature is forthcoming. |
| [12:01 PM]<alexander> | | A new version of TWiki was released today and we're evaluating it. |
| [12:01 PM]<wikiuser> | | okie |
| [12:01 PM]<alexander> | | So, it might be Real Soon Now |
| [12:02 PM]<wikiuser> | | alirhgty |
| [12:02 PM]<wikiuser> | | good to know |
| [12:02 PM]<alexander> | | kp |
| [12:03 PM]<alexander> | | All good? |
| [12:03 PM]<wikiuser> | | I believe so...I had UMWikiAdmin install a syntax highlighting plugin and am trying to get that working...I may bug you if I am unsure of anything...thanks! |
| [12:03 PM]<alexander> | | kp |
| [12:20 PM]<wikiuser> | | two questions quick |
| [12:20 PM]<wikiuser> | | https://wiki.umn.edu/twiki/bin/view/OurInternal/TopSecretOffice |
| [12:20 PM]<wikiuser> | | the permissions are set wrong there |
| [12:20 PM]<wikiuser> | | and I must be missing something as to how to specify |
| [12:21 PM]<alexander> | | hrmm. |
| [12:21 PM]<alexander> | | This isn't going to work. |
| [12:21 PM]<wikiuser> | | alright |
| [12:21 PM]<alexander> | | You're working inside of the OurInternal web |
| [12:21 PM]<wikiuser> | | is it because it is in OurInternal |
| [12:21 PM]<alexander> | | We can't do subwebs yet. |
| [12:21 PM]<wikiuser> | | ok |
| [12:21 PM]<alexander> | | That's in the next release. |
| [12:21 PM]<wikiuser> | | got it now |
| [12:21 PM]<wikiuser> | | no biggie |
| [12:22 PM]<alexander> | | If you need a TopSecretStuffWeb, I'd write a request to the wiki folks and UMWikiAdmin could help set one up for you. |
| [12:22 PM]<alexander> | | What sort of top secret stuff do you want to do in there? |
| [12:22 PM]<alexander> | | If you had your own web (like OurInternal or TheDepartment has, for example), you could choose exactly who had view/write permissions for the web |
| [12:22 PM]<wikiuser> | | well there is some information about hosts we connect to and information (e.g. TopSecretStuff) that we have access to that we'd prefer people didn't know we have access to |
| [12:23 PM]<alexander> | | People inside of or outside of TheDepartment? |
| [12:23 PM]<wikiuser> | | probably a bit of the former and all of the latter |
| [12:23 PM]<wikiuser> | | hrm |
| [12:23 PM]<alexander> | | Remember, OurInternal is only accessable to people in TheDepartment & TheJavaPeople at this point. |
| [12:24 PM]<wikiuser> | | yea |
| [12:24 PM]<alexander> | | TheDepartment is only viewable to people in TheDepartment |
| [12:24 PM]<wikiuser> | | and kbase article will be pushed to another web o make them public? |
| [12:24 PM]<alexander> | | And I wouldn't put any TopSecretStuff in the wiki |
| [12:24 PM]<alexander> | | yep |
| [12:24 PM]<alexander> | | we're working out that process now |
| [12:24 PM]<wikiuser> | | not that we will put TopSecretStuff in there |
| [12:24 PM]<wikiuser> | | but that we have tools that allow us to look them up |
| [12:25 PM]<alexander> | | You might want to have your own web for now, then. |
| [12:25 PM]<wikiuser> | | k |
| [12:25 PM]<alexander> | | Once we figure out how to do page-level permissions in version 4.0, we can integrate your stuff with TheDepartment. |
| [12:25 PM]<wikiuser> | | ok |
| [12:25 PM]<alexander> | | But this is going to make the information harder to search for. |
| [12:26 PM]<alexander> | | Which means it'll be less useful to lots of folks. |
| [12:26 PM]<alexander> | | But for the sake of security it sounds like the way to go |
| [12:26 PM]<wikiuser> | | theory question |
| [12:26 PM]<alexander> | | k |
| [12:27 PM]<wikiuser> | | are people making directory structures for topic inside a web (e.g. OurInternal/Procedures/MakingNewWikiPages/Start) or are they doing it on a single level (e.g. OurInternal/StartToMakeNewWikiPages |
| [12:27 PM]<wikiuser> | | and which are we encouraging |
| [12:28 PM]<alexander> | | everything is on one level. |
| [12:28 PM]<wikiuser> | | k |
| [12:28 PM]<alexander> | | which is enforced by the wiki. |
| [12:28 PM]<wikiuser> | | k |
| [12:28 PM]<alexander> | | It requires that people think carefully about topic names |
| [12:28 PM]<wikiuser> | | seems to me that a structure would lend itself to better permissions control |
| [12:28 PM]<alexander> | | For instance, "DesktopError" might not be a good topic name. |
| [12:28 PM]<alexander> | | Subwebs are a feature of 4.0 |
| [12:28 PM]<wikiuser> | | k |
| [12:29 PM]<wikiuser> | | so I am ahead of the game |
| [12:29 PM]<alexander> | | yep |
| [12:29 PM]<alexander> | | Wikis are not designed to keep information from people. |
| [12:29 PM]<wikiuser> | | I am just having trouble fitting my square peg in this round hole |
| [12:29 PM]<wikiuser> | | agreed |
| [12:29 PM]<wikiuser> | | but for some of what we are doing, it is necessary |
| [12:30 PM]<alexander> | | And that tendency hurts the entire project. Everyone wants their little secret webs, which means that everyone will end up reproducing other people's efforts and nobody will be able to share information. It sort of gets to me. |
| [12:30 PM]<alexander> | | That's definitely one area where wikipedia has done a great job--keeping people together and making them collaborate. |
| [12:31 PM]<alexander> | | For our internal efforts, the privacy is ultra useful |
| [12:31 PM]<wikiuser> | | yea |
| [12:31 PM]<alexander> | | And it has its place, but I think a big public web for the UMN community would be a good thing. |
| [12:31 PM]<wikiuser> | | agreed |
| [12:31 PM]<alexander> | | Let people push their data up to it as they see fit. |
| [12:32 PM]<alexander> | | Anyway, I'm gonna get off my soapbox now and get back to werk. |
| [12:32 PM]<alexander> | | |
| [12:32 PM]<wikiuser> | | one thing that has set me off about the TheDepartment web effort in general is that information for the same problems/questions is in 5 different places and hardly any of it is right and/or you've got to know the answer to find it... |
| [12:32 PM]<alexander> | | That is a problem, absolutely. |
| [12:33 PM]<alexander> | | The problem stems from the University Departmentality, I think. |
| [12:34 PM]<alexander> | | Everyone's trying to grab turf. |
| [12:34 PM]<wikiuser> | | yes...everyone wants to be the vanguard of something. |
| [12:34 PM]<wikiuser> | | regardless of whether it is re-inventing the wheel |
| [12:34 PM]<alexander> | | These things will sort themselves out, I'm certain. Let's get people using the wiki, and down the line we'll have an army of people willing to work on the public web. |
| [12:34 PM]<wikiuser> | | with a new name or style sheet |
| [12:34 PM]<wikiuser> | | word |
| [12:34 PM]<alexander> | | Sure. |
| [12:34 PM]<alexander> | | |
| [12:35 PM]<alexander> | | But we should push against the ingrained culture a bit. Soft, steady push. |
| [12:35 PM]<wikiuser> | | agreed |