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April 26, 2005

Same old arguments

Well, the naysayers have come out in full force with the same old tired arguments against building a new Twins stadium. Allow me to expound on some of them and bring up some of my own tired arguments:

The old "subsidizing billionaires" argument

This argument was featured in a column by Doug Grow today entitled, Mulling Twins ballpark plan no easy matter. Well, it's easy if you are a stadium freak like me. Anyway, Grow begins his column by stating basically that he is having trouble with this plan because Carl Pohlad will make money. Citing useful statistics on the values of other franchises after new stadiums were built and the values of new stadium naming rights, Grow comes up with this statement, "That means that the Pohlads, conservatively, would receive $130 million for this $125 million investment."

What?!? You mean someone is actually going to make money off of this deal? Oh the humanity! (gnashing of teeth, rending of garments) When will this evil stop! Next you'll tell me that people make money everyday! Why do we let this "money making" happen in our world? Why?

Please. I'm so sick and tired of focusing on Pohlad I could puke. Let's focus on ourselves for once. What do we get out of this deal? A beautiful stadium? Check. A revitalized Warehouse District? Check. An affordable family activity? Check. Outdoor baseball? Check. Continued good times and memories from an important Minnesota institution? Check check. Continued national, daily exposure for our city and state? Check.

But no. Let's focus on one old man. What is wrong with everyone? The Twins leave and Pohlad will still have his billions. But millions of Twins fans will be left with nothing. Sticking it to Pohlad won't accomplish anything but taking away something important from ourselves.

What about health care and education and the myriad of other needs our state has?

First of all, this is no longer a state issue. This is a Hennepin County issue. So complain to your state representatives about the other needs our state has but leave the Twins stadium out of it. This plan is for a Twins stadium. That's it. Either we want one or we don't.

Secondly, in the nine years this debate has been raging how much extra money has any of these issues received as a result of our not building a new Twins stadium? That's right. Nothing. Nada. Zip. In other words, for nine years our illustrious state legislators have used this argument against building a new Twins stadium. At the same time they have never actually said, "Well, now that we aren't building a stadium let's use that money for education!" Bzzzz! This has never happened! To put it another way, our legislators talk and talk, and argue and argue, but they never actually do anything to fix either problem! So, time's up! Get off the swing set, it is our turn to take it for a ride.

I'll never use a new Twins stadium. Why should I have to pay for it?

I'll probably never use the street you live on, why should I have to pay for it? I have never used the Target in downtown Minneapolis. Why did I have to subsidize it? I never use the LRT. Why are my taxes going towards that? I don't really frequent the Guthrie that much, can I have my tax money back? I have never visited the Jeffers Petroglyphs out in western Minnesota. That must mean it is unimportant!

Gah! The concept is called "community" people. We spend a lot of tax dollars on the idea that while we may never actually see or use the benefits of that money, a lot of other people will. Why a new Twins stadium is outside the realm of "community" is beyond me.

So, the next time you think about a Twins stadium and the fact that you may not ever use it, think about me. That's right: ME. I will be very happy if a new Twins stadium will be built. In fact, I will be happy with you for helping me out! I will be so happy, I will erect a giant statue of you in my front yard! We'll both be happy, and Minnesota will be a better place because of it.

That's all I got for right now. More incoherent and emotion filled ramblings coming up.

Posted by snackeru at April 26, 2005 12:30 PM | Stadiums


My sources tell me that this plan will not get through the legislature. My sources are second or third hand, but it put a little damper on my day.

Your analysis is right on. Forget about Pohlad. What about the people of this state, who pay taxes and want a certain quality of life that includes major league sports?

Your site would be better though, if you had some pictures of Twins players' butts.

Posted by: SBG at April 26, 2005 4:12 PM

No, No, No, NO, NO, NOOOO!!! Bad SBG. Bad! I will not believe your trusted "source"!! A pox on his house!

And it took me a while to understand what you were talking about with the player's butts comment. But yes, I think more player's butt shots would be a welcome addition to this site. It might increase my page hits to 10, 20, or even 50,000 hits a day!

Posted by: Shane at April 26, 2005 4:29 PM

These same legislators that scream against Pohlad making money are more than willing to vote to bring $ into their districts and/or pockets. I frickin hate career politicians.

Posted by: Cheesehead Craig at April 26, 2005 4:46 PM

I hope my source is wrong. His words? Slim and none. Sigh.

I want to head over to new stadium after work and take in many Twins games. Outside.

Posted by: SBG at April 26, 2005 5:59 PM

New stadium, old stadium. Same diff: It'll be the same old tired MLB. You guys want real baseball--players with something to really play for, out in the fresh air, a "family friendly" seating section (no cussin, no drinkin), a playground for the kids, and maybe even get a back rub or hair cut while you're there--come on out to Saint Paul to see the Saints play!

Posted by: Yvette at April 26, 2005 6:46 PM

Or I could watch world-class players in a state of the art facility playing games that carry a lot of real value, working towards a goal more important then a Northern League Title.

By the way Shane, I found that my local legislator is AGAINST a stadium, and since I happen to sit next to her daughter in Spanish class, I pestered her for minutes on end!

Posted by: TwinsJunkie at April 26, 2005 7:26 PM

Hey, count your blessings, Shane - at least there's a response.

And why should stadium opponents come up with any new arguments when stadium backers are still using the same arguments that have failed to get a ballpark built for the past ten years?

I had to respond to this one, though:

"Or I could watch world-class players in a state of the art facility playing games that carry a lot of real value, working towards a goal more important then a Northern League Title."

How are MLB games of any more 'real value' than Northern League games? How is a World Series 'more important' than a Northern League title? Because you say so? Pfft! Next you'll be telling me that we need a stadium to 'revitalize the Warehouse District'. Last time I checked, between the Target Center, the strip clubs, and the new condos going up, the Warehouse District was doing pretty well, thanks.

And if you really think minor league games don't matter, head over to TwinsTerritory.com and tell Dianna that nobody gives a crap how the Rock Cats or the Miracle do. Go on, I dare ya.

Posted by: David Wintheiser at April 26, 2005 8:07 PM

Well, if you wanted to talk about it emotionally, how about asking every St. Paul Saints player if they'd rather win a Northern League title or a World Series. I think minor league games are fine, but I think it's a well known fact that a World Series title carries a lot more weight, which I'm sure Dianna would agree with.

From a concrete standpoint: the winners purse for the World Series is how much more than a Northern League title. Now, I know you're going to say that money isn't the only thing in the world, but either way you look at it; well, basically you're wrong.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 26, 2005 8:20 PM

Well, if you wanted to talk about it emotionally, how about asking every St. Paul Saints player if they'd rather win a Northern League title or a World Series. I think minor league games are fine, but I think it's a well known fact that a World Series title carries a lot more weight, which I'm sure Dianna would agree with.

Posted by: TwinsJunkie at April 26, 2005 8:21 PM


I've been reading your posts for months now, and although some of your arguments border on the persuasive, I dare say now that you just don't get it. You have forever placed principles ahead of rationality and will aimlessly enlist yourself against any stadium effort. You wouldn't even support a stadium if it cost the county or state $20. And that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion.

But from reading your posts, I can't help but to get the feeling that you are a sad individual with no real causes to fight for, and no real meaning to your life so you've grabbed ahold of this stadium issue and won't let go or even listen to the other side until the bitter end. And to put it bluntly, you are pathetic. There are many issues to dig your heals in against and fight for such as; excessive drug sentencing, the war in Iraq, homelessness, social security reform; and yet you've chosen to champion this one. Why? You could make such a bigger impact in helping a worthier cause.
My arguments for a stadium are simplistic, but I feel not without some egalitarian merits. So here goes. As a liberal, who just accepted a job offer in MPLS and who grew up there, my tax dollars go to public housing, social security, disability, welfare, and many other government services and programs that I will never need or benefit from individually. And get this, I am okay with that. In fact, being in upper middle class or lower upper class tax bracket, my group ,although it makes up only 10% of the country will fund 75% of the country's budget. And once again, I am fine with that. However, for once, local government will be providing me a service that I would benefit from or perhaps better appreciate. They will do it for fractions of pennies on the dollar, and yet people like you wish to stand in the way. I work 60 hours a week and all I am asking for is at the end of the day is the opportunity to come home and flip on the Twins' game or god forbid head down to the park.
So put up a stink if you must. If you do succeed, I will not curse you or slink into a sea of depression, for I do understand afterall that it is just baseball. However, if you do succeed in stopping the ballpark and moving the Twins to Vegas, I will actually be more concerned for your well-being, for how will you ever fill the gaps of time in your life? Perhaps Saints' Baseball or signing on to another meaningless and uninspiring cause will do, I don't know. And if you are in trouble of finding one, I'm sure there's a 89 year-old building yearning to be put on the historic registry or perhaps you could circulate a petition requiring that no WMDs ever be manufactured within MPLS city limits. Know that I will keep my fingers crossed for you in hopes that your life and disposition will not always remain in the sad state of affairs that they are now. Smile!

Posted by: Vince at April 26, 2005 9:02 PM

As someone who has seen many a Northern League game (after all I lived in ND, it was the best game in town) I say unequivocally, give me an effing break. (Sorry for the French, Shane.)

There is no comparison between NL baseball and MLB. Hey, little league is fun to watch, too. Why not just scrap all professional sports and lets all go and watch 10 year olds play. Call me an elitist, but if I can have a chance to watch world class athletes perform on the baseball diamond, I take the major leagues every single day of the week and twice on Sundays (let's play two!).

Personally, I find the Saints games intolerable. At least in Fargo, it's about winning the game. I'm not sure what it's about in St. Paul. A pig? I guess maybe I'm a little more serious about baseball than the average Joe, but I want to go to a game where the most important thing is the actual competition.

As for the stadium. I have been to MLB games in 14 different stadiums. The Metrodump is, by far, the worst place I have ever seen for Major League Baseball. By far. No question.

Let me say something about public financing. I am for it. I am for government pooling public monies to make this a better place to live. Build stadiums. Build light rail. Do other things for the common good. And yes, tax me more if that's what it takes, dammit! I want to live in a place that has things that make life better AND I am willing to pay for it!

Posted by: SBG at April 26, 2005 10:30 PM

Fun Fact: TwinsJunkie has never been to another MLB Park. I've been told I haven't lived, which I quickly agree with.

Posted by: TwinsJunkie at April 27, 2005 6:08 PM

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