February 20, 2007
KARE 11 stadium piece
Any comments? Personally, I thought Kupchella did a decent job, although again, there is no way Bruce and Rich were indifferent about the ballpark on their land after 2004. No way. They may have put together a Plan B, but that was only because no one, myself included, ever thought a ballpark bill would pass this godforsaken state.
Kupchella also said that the Twins would be responsible for the cost overruns on the infrastructure, so they care a lot about how much the county will pay for the land. Oops. Not quite accurate.
The fact of the matter is LPII, as represented by Bruce and Rich, were very, very, very active in the lobbying efforts to get this ballpark bill passed in 2006. If they didn't want the ballpark on their land after 2004, they should have told the County and the Twins to take their land out of the bill. They did just the opposite.
However, if they thought they would get the 2004 deal again that would certainly explain their enthusiasm during the legislative process (and believe me they were very much on board), and their lack of enthusiasm for what was finally offered in 2007.
One thing that I liked about the Kupchella report, though, was the examples of different land spots in Minneapolis that have gone through a condemnation process. Every one of them was valued by the court at twice as much as the original assessment. That would mean approx. $26 million for this land (based on the County's independent assessment of $13.35 million).
Kupchella also said that LPII is right now preparing a counter-offer to the County's offer of $13.35 that they will present to the court. It sounds to me that we will only get a counter-offer number if the county carries through on condemnation.
Condemnation still sounds the way to go. More tomorrow (maybe). Thoughts?
Posted by snackeru at February 20, 2007 10:11 PM
"Kupchella also said that the Twins would be responsible for the cost overruns on the infrastructure, so they care a lot about how much the county will pay for the land. Oops. Not quite accurate."
Why isn't that accurate?
From what I've heard, especially from Dave St. Peter last week on KFAN, that the Twins will be responsible for all cost run overs when dealing with the $90 million infrastructure cap.
Posted by: Erik at February 20, 2007 10:33 PM
The Twins are responsible for the cost overruns on the ballpark itself. The County is responsible for the infrastructure and land acquisition. If the Twins were also responsible for the infrastructure overruns, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The County would condemn the land, use whatever they had to out of the $90 million cap, and call it a day. Again, the County has to pay for the land acquisition and the infrastructure. A big reason they are offering "only" $13.35 million is they need the rest for the infrastructure.
It would be great for the Twins to step up here and help the County out, but they aren't required to do so by law. I wish.
Posted by: Shane at February 20, 2007 10:38 PM
Ahhh, OK. Thanks for the clarification.
Yes, it would indeed be nice if the Twins would step up and help this thing get through. I mean, it's not like Mr. Pohlad couldn't afford it.
I just hope this whole thing works out.
Posted by: Erik at February 20, 2007 10:41 PM
I also thought the piece was very informative. The building comparisons made me nervous, but I still think it's doable. I really don't have any other comments except I just want them to "get er done"
Posted by: MOJO at February 20, 2007 10:44 PM
The Twins aren't going to let this fall apart over an additional $13 million (20-30 million sounds like the number), but where is the city of minneapolis in this? Why aren't they stepping up to make an investment in their city. Drives me nuts we pay 4 million for the Shubert to sit and a 40,000 seat stadium and development of a dry side of downtown doesn't serve the citizens of this city.
Posted by: Franklin at February 20, 2007 10:47 PM
ITo be quite honest, i am very nervous about this stadium deal. The twins and other teams have had bad luck with stadiums in the past. I am just hoping for the best but it is driving me nuts. I wake up every day hoping to hear good news. Time is running out. If they don't get this site, they will have to start all over and then I think the legislature will basically say "see yah twins."
Posted by: troy at February 20, 2007 10:49 PM
I wonder if KARE 11 plans to do another piece, giving the public what Paul Harvey would call "THE REST OF THE STORY"
Posted by: kevin in az at February 20, 2007 11:01 PM
It sure would be nice to hear the OTHER SIDE of the story...hopefully Kare 11 has a plan of this.
Posted by: Erik at February 20, 2007 11:02 PM
I know you guys' are tired of me beating the Oputz drum. But I guaranty you, if anybody else was in charge of this, it'd be done by now.
County's don't go to the legislature to pass bills to get roads built! what a stupid comment. I'm sorry - but this guy drives me nuts.
Posted by: Stadiumshill at February 20, 2007 11:04 PM
anybody know if this thing is still going to court?
Posted by: troy at February 20, 2007 11:08 PM
And I would argue that without Opat, the Twins would have already been gone. No one else had the guts and drive to get us this far, and we are very far. I have faith.
Posted by: Shane at February 20, 2007 11:08 PM
I thought it was interesting, if accurate, that LP is in the process of completing their appraisal. I would have thought they would have had it done by now. However, it makes sense. In the Star Trib article on 2/14, it stated:
"Negotiations over the 8-acre property have stalled in part because county officials, the landowners and their technical experts hold widely differing views on soil conditions and whether they should lower the property's worth. A senior county engineer said pilings will likely need to be driven 80 to 120 feet deep to support the stadium's superstructure.
Pogin, who said his own experts dismiss the county's assertions, said the county initially had the land appraised at $21 million but then essentially shaved the value to $13.35 million to account for soil conditions. "
According to this, then HC originally appraised the land at $21. Maybe the hold up is HC and LP is waiting for more opinions on the condition of the soil?
Also, I'm a tad mad at the Twins. According to the report, they took the 5 acres that were part of the 2004 deal for "vip parking". (I for one hate the idea of the Stadium being surrounded by parking lots, but that is a different topic) Here is an idea, the Twins pay LP the value of those five acres, HC pays LP $13m and we have a deal!
Posted by: BP Twin at February 20, 2007 11:09 PM
Sounds like the landowners are already planning housing there because they aren't optimistic that the county will pay more for the land.
Posted by: troy at February 20, 2007 11:15 PM
When city property taxes are going up double digits per year, schools are in trouble and libraries are closing, the last thing the City of Minneapolis needs to do is get involved in this boondoggle.
Why doesn't the downtown council step up to the plate with private funding? What a concept. It's the downtown bars/restaurants that will benefit the most from this.
Posted by: Eva Young at February 20, 2007 11:27 PM
a lot of bitter people. seems the stadium issue rules their world. who are they gonna blame all of the world's problems on when the twins skip town because of this "boondoggle". how is it a boondoggle? it's simply a land dispute, a difference of opinion over price. happens a lot. if no ballpark is built, 'cest la vie. i'll take road trips to chicago and spend my money there.
Posted by: mullen at February 21, 2007 12:24 AM
I just wanted to add my opinion although I am nothing other than a big fan of baseball and new stadiums (and may or may not live close to the proposed ballpark site)... As background I live close to the site, and walk by it basically every single day of my life. As I walk accross the bridge on Washington, I look to the right, and just stare at the vacant parking lots. To be real, it is really a very depressing stretch of land/parking lots that I can never imagine would be anything important. After all, it is the only place to park downtown for my very cheap co-workers.
Re-wind... i had some Iowa friends in town for the Hawkeye/Gopher football game to tailgate at the Rapid Park site and attempted to explain to them that they are essentially taking shots of booze at what will be home plate for opening day 2010 of the Twins season. Forgiving their alcohol intake pre-noon, they thought I was insane. They, legitimately, thought I was kidding. Again, these were Iowegians, but it just goes to show how tight this site is for a legitimate stadium. Again, I am confident they will fit it in, as a Twins fan, and am hopeful as a property owner, but damn, that is not a lot of space. Proponents of the stadium HAVE TO ASSUME that 3rd Ave will no longer exist. Ahh, I miss the days when our biggest concern was Lisa Goodman's anti-clsoing 3rd AVe for two blocks was the big deal. Close third AVE, raise the tax, I don't care, let's just get it done!
Posted by: chi-town2 at February 21, 2007 12:47 AM
Well, the journey is just about over. I sought out the "Greet Machine" in an effort to vent my frustration towards HC (and "you-know-who") and at least try to swing the pendulum of public opinion back towards the middle after Reusse (HC stooge) and Shartman (Twins Shill), skewered LPII in their medium.
I want to thank Shane for maintaining this site, even though he's blinded by the crown he's put on Opats head.
I, for one, never believed the Twins were going anywhere - No major league club is going to vacate the 10th largest media market in the US, no matter what they say. Especially Pohlad. Despite what's said about him, I believe he still is concerned about his legacy here. So, for that reason - all the threats sounded pretty hollow.
I'm happy for the fans, because they are the ones who truley won. Having a better place to watch baseball! and the owners of LPII won, for having the foresight to invest in a "ditch" and subsequently fund their retirement. Good for them. Only in America!
I'll check back in from time to time - mostly just to "face" Kev in az, mullen, shane and a couple others to say "I told you so" after the land gets condemned, Opat gets run out on a rail, and the stadium opens in 2011 (sorry, it'll still be delayed). But, it's almost over. I gotta get back to work! Later.
p.s. Shane, you have my email. If you ever want my opinion on anything, drop me a line.
Posted by: Stadiumshill at February 21, 2007 6:57 AM
I had to re-watch this segment on the KARE 11 web site this morning just to make sure I heard a couple of things correctly. Shane - I agree that this was a pretty well-done piece. However, I couldn't believe my ears when Rich Pogin said that they were more interested in using the land for a "transit hub" rather than a ballpark. He even mentioned a "Grand Central Station" of Minneapolis. Ok, talk about a boondoggle. What are people going to flock to this transit hub to see? Timberwolves games? The Hard Rock Cafe at Block E? I understand that plenty of people work downtown, but is that enough to sustain a Grand Central Station of Minneapolis? This sounds ridiculous. A ballpark would bring 2 to 3 million downtown because of the 81 dates per year. Can someone shed some light on this for me?
Posted by: Jeff T. at February 21, 2007 7:38 AM
Bringing fear and wonderment, like a comet shooting across the sky, Stadiumshill blazed a trail across Greet Machine like no other with his wealth of information and tiresome name calling. Though I shall shed no tears at his passing, somehow I feel sad.
Posted by: Freealonzo at February 21, 2007 7:51 AM
The KARE 11 piece was decent. As others have said, it leaned toward the LPII perspective and it's a little annoying that this "we weren't that active in 2006" meme is legitimized with the news piece.
I wasn't that impressed with condemnation examples. RK could have just as easily picked out three projects were the market value was less or was within a couple of percentage point either way of the price going in. The point is that it's a crapshoot.
That crapshoot is what has the County worried. The problem is that the County doesn't have a realistic Plan B. So Opat and crew have to realize that, suck it up, or as one poster tactifully stated "grow a pair," and enter into quick take.
Posted by: Freealonzo at February 21, 2007 8:20 AM
if ever someone on a board transformed me from annoyance to looking forward to their opinion and info, it was stadiumshill. if it's a win-win for everyone, that will be an amazing feat after all this drama. business is business and this is one of the biggest public works projects in the history of the state. throw a minnesota pro sports team into the mix and it becomes a lightning rod. so, is something going to be announced soon? don't leave us hangin' here shill, take us into the inner circle!
Posted by: mullen at February 21, 2007 8:30 AM
Yes, Shill, thanks for your contributions. I don't know where you are getting your information, but it was a good perspective to have. I hope you are right and the County condemns soon.
By the way, concerning the KARE11 piece, does anyone have any thoughts or comments on all the land gyrations Kupchella went through? You know, the stuff about the County giving the Twins a spot for VIP parking? Is this accurate? I'm thinking Kupchella was a little loose with reality here in order to sell his angle.
Posted by: Shane at February 21, 2007 8:35 AM
Schill if full of hot air. He doesn't have any inside information. He's obviously not involved in the inside dealings of Hennepin county. He's an outsider making a prediction that's almost a given will happen anyway.
Posted by: John at February 21, 2007 8:48 AM
Finally, the Twins get mentioned in the conversation. Right now the stadium is being held up by XXX dollars because our county representitives are poor businessmen (refer to "O-Putz" as an example). However, if the county claims that it does not have the money to pay the fair market value for the land, then the Twins should step up and pay the difference. I have read numerous times that the new stadium will double the value of the Twins franchise. So, let me think here, if there is no new stadium, then the twins value is only $140MM, with a stadium it goes to $260-280MM. All of a suddden the difference between what the county can afford and what is the fair market value of the land is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. Easy decision. Start planning for outdoor baseball games at the current proposed site. Step up Twins. Let's Play Ball.
Posted by: Jimmy Jack at February 21, 2007 8:55 AM
I thought Kupchella did a good job last night. You have to remember that most people are not as well educated on the stadium issue as Greet Machine readers, and it's not the easiest issue to cover in a 4-minute TV report.
If you'd like to comment on the report, Kupchella is doing a live chat at noon today. Just go to www.kare11.com and click on the Lunchtime Live link. You'll need to register to participate, but that only takes a minute. It did sound in last night's wrapup like Kupchella will have a follow-up report, possibly tonight.
Posted by: twayn at February 21, 2007 11:37 AM
I agree with the general sentiment... the KARE 11 piece was better than I expected. That being said, the following were my reactions:
1. It was disingenuous of LPII to present that they basically didn't care about having a ballpark on their land. We've all seen the lobbyist expense reports that I dug up yesterday. It's clear that they did care.
2. It cracked me up when LPII talked about the world-class architects coming in and telling them that they wouldn't want a ballpark and that a transportation hub would be better. Could that be because those architects were pitching the transportation hub and wouldn't have a snowball's chance of getting chosen for a ballpark?
3. The sound bytes chosen from Kupchella's interview with Opat were brutal. My impression, based on the sound bytes chosen, was that it was a media cut and paste of the worst parts of the interview. The entire 22 minute interview is available on KARE 11, but I haven't had a chance to confirm my impressions. The only thing Opat needed to say was that LPII was lobbying for the ballpark and working with them. Conversely, the sound bytes from LPII were pretty clear, concise, and damning of Hennepin County. Again, I would need to look at their full interview to confirm my thoughts that Kupchella cookie cut the sound bytes to his viewpoint.
4. Shane is right that Kupchella was flat-out wrong to say that any overruns on infrastructure were the Twins responsibility. The digging would already have started if that was the case.
Overall, not a bad job. The one disheartening thing is that even with a chat and follow-up report, the initial report is what most people will latch onto. As a result, even if Kupchella acknowledges that LPII lobbied the new ballpark bill that did pass, the general population will continue to believe that LPII would prefer a transportation hub.
Posted by: The Rational Actor at February 21, 2007 12:15 PM
I thought the Kupchella piece was pretty one-sided, but I expected that from him.
If there's any "balance" to be had here after the quickie interview with the 60-year old who cannot fathom how she can possibly be a greedy landowner, here's what I'd like to see:
How much did LP II pay for the parcels of land they own when they bought them back in the 1980's? I'm guessing that whatever income they've gotten from the parking has been enough to offset the property taxes and what little maintenance has been done, so just what kind of profit are they looking at if the sale price were $13M?
Posted by: Mark Snyder at February 21, 2007 12:21 PM
i dont understand the transportation hub "grand central station" talk also. this is already proceeding irregardless of these people and the ballpark site. and wouldn't be a wonderful amenity to have a baseball stadium right next door to that transportation hub? gee, what a concept. as it sits now, the northstar and hiawatha will terminate in a sea of parking lots. LP II isn't hiring world-class architects, it's Hines Interests, and they've as much said the office and housing market downtown is too stagnant presently to develop anything there. world class architects, that's a load of crap to make it sound like they're big time developers, which on their own, they are not.
Posted by: mullen at February 21, 2007 12:35 PM
ya know. the more and more i read about this, the more I come to the conclusion that LPII (and when I say that I mean rich & bruce) are the worst sort of business people in that they are obvious amateurs who have no idea how to go about getting the value of their land. their contention that they want to sit back and get whatever the courts decide smacks of the farmer who laid the golden goose, hey I've got a winning lottery ticket, how much is it worth?
Instead of being out in front, getting assessments, developing business cases, preparing for sale - they've been content to sit back and get 'whatever' (just as long as it's more than what is currently on the table). these are the type of people that real business people "pwn" when it comes down to negotiations, and it's really unfortunate that Pohlad and the Twins didn't recognize that and buy them out of this property 4 years ago when they could have taken advantage of their own boobery.
If I were a member of LPII, I'd start suing these two idiots NOW, because they obviously haven't done anything to maximize the investment and get the biggest $ value for the land. There is NO way that this land is worth more as "Grand Central Station" than Twinsville and whoever said that was only looking out for their own bottom line, not LPII's.
Posted by: barry at February 21, 2007 12:41 PM
The Twins never deserved the right to steal tax money, and now they are being punished. Go away, losers!
Posted by: Portland Twins at February 21, 2007 12:49 PM
That's the spirit Portland Twins! Now I understand why the Milwaukee Brewers suck, they're being punished. Seattle Mariners - punished, Cincinnati Redes - punished, Pittsburgh Pirates - punished, Detroit Tigers - punished. et. al.
Posted by: Freealonzo at February 21, 2007 1:09 PM
Did anyone see the picture of the stadium behind Opat's head in the interview last night? It looked new...I haven't seen it before and wonder if it was part of the new design. It looked modern and different than anything shown before.
Also, Stadiumshill made an appearence in the lunch chat on Kare 11. Kupchella mentioned that shill had interesting comments in blogs this past week and he should reveal himself. It's nice to see that Kupchella is reading Greet Machine.
Posted by: MOJO at February 21, 2007 1:23 PM
Rick Kupchella answered "Rational Actors" assertion that Land Partners were being disingenuous about selling their land for a ball park.
Rational Actors question;
Your report last night seemed to suggest that Land Partners was not involved in the 2006 ballpark bill (i.e. that they had moved on to the "better" transportation hub idea and that Hennepin County passed the bill against all odds in 2006).
As you may or may not be aware, lobbyist records are available from the Minnesota Campaign Finance and Public Disclosure Board. Ballpark lobbying efforts on behalf of Land Partners were certainly still being conducted in 2006. Take a look here: http://www.cfbreport.state.mn.us/pdfStorage/2006/Lobby/LD/P1/l_5600_3937.pdf. Bruce Lambrecht spent $33,000 for lobbying the 2006 ballpark bill on behalf of Twinsville LLC (an entity supporting building a Twins ballpark, and backed by Land Partners II).
If you'll notice, Mr. Lambrecht terminated his lobbyist registration, effective May 31, 2006. It doesn't take a lot of thought to figure out why... the ballpark bill was passed and his work was done.
To suggest that Land Partners had given up on Twinsville and the ballpark in favor of the transit hub is somewhat disingenuous.
Rick Kupchella's response;
good & fair point.
first let me tell you that i have talked to some legislators who were intimately engaged in the passage of this law at the legislature... and i've asked them whether lambrecht himself was lobbying this issue... i've been told "he was conspicuously absent" & "i cannot recall" from two in particular.
that said... it's pretty clear to me they were funding a lobbyist who was working this issue.
they will tell you that promotion of their land for greater value -- even more than one option at a time -- should not constitute a willingness to settle on a price that is less than market value.
again they're very much on record saying:
- we won't challenge the process of condemnation
- we will agree to the courts 3rd party determination on the value of the land.
Just thought this was pertinent.
Posted by: Casual Fan at February 21, 2007 3:06 PM
There is one entity that hasn't been specifically mentioned in all of this, and that's Major League Baseball. They certainly don't want to see this blow up any more then the Twins do. It would leave them with a mess. Either they'd have a team stuck in a bad stadium situation indefinitely which they've already said they don't want, or they'd have to pull a move similar to what they did with the Expos and buy them, hold them for a while and move them.
This may have caused fairly little backlash with the Expos, but it would cause major outcry with the Twins and they know it. Imagine the 2008 Twins, having won 5 division titles in 6 years having to trade off Joe Mauer and Johan Santana to get under MLB's self-imposed salary cap. And as has been discussed here before, there's not really anywhere that viable for them to move to.
The reason I bring this up is that including the Twins there are 3 teams still trying to resolve stadium issues. The other two are the A's and Marlins. It appears that both of them have or are on the verge of solving their issues as well. MLB has worked very hard behind the scenes to solve the Marlins stadium stalemate. They have taken over the negotiations related to the stadium, offered to 'forgive' the loan related to the contraction/sale fiasco and offered to give the Marlins an 'advance' on their revenue sharing to help with their contribution. I'm not whether they have followed through on these two items, but clearly they are willing to take more then a passive role in seeing the issue resolved for the Marlins.
Would they be willing to 'help' the Twins bridge this gap with an advance on their revenue sharing? I don’t know. For one thing, Carl Pohlad is not Jeffrey Lauria. Lauria genuinely doesn't have the money to fund a big upfront contribution (see their $15 million payroll) whereas Pohlad simply desires not to spend his money. But I have to think that at minimum MLB will be 'leaning' on the Twins and 'encouraging' them to make sure they don't let this fall apart.
Posted by: DHowe at February 21, 2007 3:34 PM
If Carl Pohlad doesn't want to pay for his stadium Hennepin County taxpayers should not be either.
I hope this stadium goes down the tubes.........and it is looking like it is going to.
I want my Hennepin County taxes they already collected from me back!
Posted by: jake at February 21, 2007 3:35 PM
The one thing that RK didn't mention that is extremely relevant- All of the appraisals they showed that turned out in the condemnation process to be worth twice as much, were all done by the same appraiser Hennepin County hired for this job. Coincidence? I think not.
Posted by: ralph the dog at February 21, 2007 3:42 PM
Boy, I am getting tired of HC/Minneapolis dragging this thing out. For just my own fantasy purposes, if anyone is handy with that Google earth thing, could someone take that Sears site in St. Paul and super-impose the purposed ballpark footprint on it? Feel free to orientate the ballpark so spectacular views of the State Capital are maximized and show where a huge public plaza would be that would be the drop off point for riders of the Central Corridor Line. St. Paul opening day 2012! Excuse while I go give Chris Coleman a call.
Posted by: Jiminstpaul at February 21, 2007 3:48 PM
Your post was funnier than some of the stuff that Shill's been throwing out there.
"Instead of being out in front, getting assessments, developing business cases, preparing for sale - they've been content to sit back and get 'whatever' (just as long as it's more than what is currently on the table)."
What you don't know could fill a book!
If it weren't for LP2, this blog would be entirely devoted to debates about the Twin's old plan that was more of a loan than a contribution or Saint Paul's failed referendum. Once Opat condemns I'll elaborate further, but for now just trust me, the work that's gone into this is quite high level and extensive.
Posted by: Ray Kinsella at February 21, 2007 3:57 PM
As far as the RK response to Rational Actor, there were a whole lot more than two legislators involved in the ballpark negotiations that he could have asked - you only have to look at Shane's archives or the archives at www.leg.state.mn.us to see who they are. Who's to say those two legislators didn't have an agenda of trying to stick it to Hennepin County?
I think Rational's evidence with the lobbyist records is a lot more convincing.
Posted by: Mark Snyder at February 21, 2007 3:58 PM
Can someone explain what happens if HC does the quick-take process? Are they obligated to pay anything to LPII now or do they wait until the land is assessed?
Posted by: Aaron at February 21, 2007 4:01 PM
Can someone explain what happens if HC does the quick-take process? Are they obligated to pay anything to LPII now or do they wait until the land is assessed?
Posted by: Aaron at February 21, 2007 4:01 PM
Did anybody watch the extended interviews on Kare11.com? I thought Mr. Opat said that Land Partners had an option signed with Hines? That option must be worth quite a bit more than what Hennepin County is offering. Or, maybe Land Partners can't get out of that commitment? Maybe Hines is the one holding this up.
Posted by: Casual Fan at February 21, 2007 4:04 PM
Jake, how would you like that $5.00 you've probably had to kick it? Quarters, Nickels, Dimes?
Posted by: JBN at February 21, 2007 4:15 PM
Indeed, there are lots of things I don't know, and most of it is in the form of books I haven't read yet. :)
However, I can't think of a single reason why any business person would sit around and 'wait' for the condemnation process to value their land. They've had years to come up with a value for that land and market it aggressively (one lame sign on the side of a building does not marketing make) at that value.
I don't want to come across as an apologist for Opat, the legislature (i really want the stadium, but there should have been a referendum, even if it was a doomed one), the twins, or C. Montgomery Pohlad, but these two knuckleheads really boned the LPII partners over. All of this could have and SHOULD have been done up front and included in the legislation last May - and it is entirely their fault that it was not.
Posted by: Barry at February 21, 2007 4:35 PM
Aaron, with Quick Take the County would deposit the $13 million it thinks is the appraised value and then they would get title to the land and could start moving dirt. The condemnation process is initiated and both parties submit information on what they think the land is worth and why. A judge or a 3 member panel makes a determination of the fair market value. If it is less than $13 million the County will get some $$$ back. If it is more, the landowners will get the $13 mil in escrow and the County would have a certain date by which they would have to provide the remainder.
Posted by: Freealonzo at February 21, 2007 4:37 PM
Freealonzo - thanks for the response.
Posted by: Aaron at February 21, 2007 4:54 PM
Okay, why can't I see posts past Jimmy Jack's that was posted 8:55 AM, I've checked back to this website since then, and the the post count has gone from 42 to 46.
P.S. After the KARE 11 report, LPII are still a bunch of scumbags! Who's gonna want to buy a condo next to a Garbage Burner.
Posted by: Lucha Libre at February 21, 2007 7:06 PM
Posted by: Winger at February 21, 2007 9:49 PM
I guess you are of the camp that we should help pay to shelter billionare owners and millionare players. Why can't the Twins step up as they will gain mega millions when the stadium is built. LPII is just like you in that I doubt you would sell your property (if you have any)at fire sale prices after having a deal at twice the current offer.
Posted by: Jimmy Jack at February 21, 2007 10:16 PM
Seriously, whats wrong with this site, now I can't see any posts past my last one?
Posted by: Lucha Libre at February 21, 2007 11:49 PM
From the "Shooter" today:
"Make no mistake: Twins owner Carl Pohlad is not going to be enticed into coughing up more money to resolve Hennepin County's downtown Minneapolis ballpark land mess.
Meanwhile, the Twins and the new Ballpark Authority are closing in on a 30-year lease."
The statements seem somewhat contradictory. If the Twins don't help bridge the gap here, what is the point of signing a lease for a stadium that will never be built?
In any case, it is not in the Twins or the county's best interest to announce that they are willing to bridge the gap. But they better be agreeing to it behind the scenes and Shooter better be wrong. I would expect that when/if they condemn they will simply say something like "all parties involved have agreed this is the best way to proceed." Not "The Twins agreed to cover the extra amount, Ka-ching!"
Posted by: David Howe at February 22, 2007 3:56 AM
you can't see any posts because the topic's been discussed to death. at this point i'd rather sit through an anna nicole smith hearing. ah, the intrigue and wonderment that is emminent domain. and i'm tired, after of a decade, of seeing some variation of the phrase "the twins aren't going to cough up" money. then just have a press conference today and say you are too cheap and indignant to outlay a little more to get the site for a public works project that is giving you free money. just come out today twins and we can dispence with dave st peter's ballpark blog, or lease negotiations and all this window dressing. i think if this were steinbrenner, we wouldn't be having this discussion. and pohlad's worth more than steinbrenner. he doesn't make the return on his tean steinbrenner does, we know, big market, small market, blah blah, but he's a billionaire, and thats with a big fat B.
Posted by: mullen at February 22, 2007 8:23 AM
Taking the land by emminent domain...hmmmm. Why is the city helping a private business? If the city took some land from somebody else, I could start a business and create jobs too.
Posted by: Greg at April 12, 2007 8:45 AM