March 13, 2007
I can't wait to think about just baseball again
From Neerland and Oyaas:
We understand that the soon-to-be-announced solution to the Ballpark land dilemma will include a more prominent role for the Twins and perhaps Hines in the development of the public infrastructure connecting the Ballpark to the rail and the rest of the emerging neighborhood along with downtown. It sounds like behind the scenes public leaders from Hennepin County and the Ballpark Authority along with the Twins have been able to make lemonade from lemons. The Twins and their architects have been eager advocates for making the necessary connections and directing more of that activity to their bailiwick can only benefit the entire community. Lest we forget, however, no matter how you slice and dice it, almost 80 percent of the funding will be coming directly from the public in the form of the 0.15 percent County sales tax. Bonds will be sold and the proceeds directed for Ballpark and infrastructure construction.
We trust that County leaders are willing to apply the green principles they actively tout in matters of construction to matters of financing; that is, keep it local and sustainable. Bonds backed by a sales tax in a growing regional economy such as ours should be as good as gold. Hopefully they will be available to as many of those of us who pay this tax, both individuals and area institutions. That is both justice and economic common sense. Executives of our local public finance institutions, notably Jim Campbell of Wells Fargo, played an important role in making the dream of a ballpark into a reality. Professionals from these institutions also put their talents into making this reality workable. Let green be the guiding principle and let’s hope that we can keep most of the green here in this community.
Why did we ever fret? Probably because we can't help it. But seriously, with all that free money coming towards the Twins, they would be complete idiots to let it all slip away over a few million more.
So, once again, a toast! Here is to green grass and open sky. May we all get sunburned in 2010.
Posted by snackeru at March 13, 2007 5:20 PM
Amen! Any word on when the official announcement will be? I can't wait to see the stadium plan. Shane, it's about time you make an update on here!
Posted by: John at March 13, 2007 5:40 PM
agreed, can't wait to see the schematics, models and talk about how much of a hitter's paraidse it will be.
Posted by: mullen at March 13, 2007 6:29 PM
I think I've heard it won't be a hitters paradise. I know it's a tight squeeze into that city block, but I think the dimensions are going to be similar to the Metrodome and it's not going to be a joke of a park like in Texas, Philadelphia, Cinncinati, and other crackerjack box type ballparks. From what I've heard, there aren't any seats in CF and RF. Had there been, this park probably would have been another cracker jack box type park, but out of respect for the game, they decided to not have seats out there and push the fences back. A pitching rich organization like the Twins cannot play in a rinky dink ballpark.
Posted by: John at March 13, 2007 7:26 PM
I've heard that this park will model Pittsburgh's PNC quite a bit.
That's just speculation though.
Posted by: Erik at March 13, 2007 7:48 PM
I HAVE BEEN WAITING TO HEAR THIS GOOD NEWS FOR SUCH A LONG TIME. I AM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW AND CANT EVEN CONTAIN MYSELF. I WILL CELEBRATE WITH A FEW BEERS. I CANT WAIT TO SEE THE OFFICIAL DESIGN AND PICTURE OF THE NEW BALLPARK. I CANT WAIT TO DRIVE BY THE SITE ON MY WAY TO A TWINS GAME AND SEE IT BEING BUILT. WHAT A DREAM COME TRUE! HOW SWEET IT IS!
Posted by: victor at March 13, 2007 7:51 PM
Glad to see this looks like it is finally coming to a resolution. Now we will be able to worry and fret about fun things, like how many homers Silva will give up in an outdoor stadium?
Posted by: Tommy at March 13, 2007 8:01 PM
Methinks that like the month of March wreaks havoc on our spring aspirations; a PR firm is yanking our collective stadium chain.
There is no pending announcement and the stadium is in jeopardy.
Posted by: Podunk at March 13, 2007 9:06 PM
The ominous previous post aside, it does sound like this will all work out and I'm very happy to hear that.
My concerns were largly relieved when I heard the Twins were 'getting involved'. The main concern was that they wouldn't 'get it' and really would let this go back to the legislature either out of being naive or simply stubborn. Once it became appearannt that they knew better, the danger was largly past. They may still be fighting over the details, but its appearant the Twins know they simply have to do whatever it takes to make this happen.
Posted by: David Howe at March 13, 2007 9:18 PM
Now that you losers appear to have your stadium, what will you be whining for next? just so I can start saving my money to contribute. Let's see.
Buses I'll never ride in: check!
Light rail I'll never see the inside of: check!
museums/theaters I never knew existed: check!
stadium that I'll never see: check!
what else can there be? I'm sure you'll come up with something. How 'bout I pay for your education so you can use that against me to come up with something else to take my money for. That's great! just great.
Posted by: Stop the Madness at March 13, 2007 10:13 PM
Mark Oyaas (of Neerland and Oyaas fame) is the primary person behind New Ballpark , Inc. and a big part of the Design Advisory Group's recommendations for the development for the Twin's Ballpark and North Loop neighborhood (found on http://www.twinsballpark.com).
In other words, he has an inside scoop I am inclined to trust.
Posted by: Shane at March 13, 2007 10:22 PM
Some of us were never worried. A couple of anonymous "Madness" type posters talking crap just to rile us up shouldn't bother anybody. It's clearly a cry for help. Won't anybody save the Madness?!?
Seriously, once they started the tax, this was inevitable. I think there was a miniscule shot after Pawlenty signed the bill that it might have been rescinded. In fact one of the guys running for County Commissioner in my neighborhood sole platform was to rescind the tax. I think he got 5% of the vote. But once that tax kicked in.
I was smiling everytime I saw a receipt with the extra tax. But yeah, I agree. It is definitely a good, good day.
Posted by: drake33 at March 13, 2007 11:03 PM
Shane...this is awesome news! Thanks again for being the best! Also, I wanted to feed my obsession a little more and clicked on your link twinsballpark.com and it doesn't work. Is there a different site you are thinking of?
Posted by: MOJO at March 13, 2007 11:20 PM
I think it was an inadvertent error on Shane's part... I believe the site he was referencing was: http://www.twinsballpark.org/
I am hopeful based on the Neerland and Oyaas post, but I don't think I'll be too comfortable until the announcement is made.
Other than that... I can't wait until the designs are released. To bide my time, I have been looking at the proposed designs for the Nationals, Athletics, Yankees and Mets stadiums.
Posted by: The Rational Actor at March 14, 2007 12:52 AM
I don't know what everybody was getting all "arm wavey" and anxious about. You go to the website mentioned above and you can see the time line. If this extended beyond April, MAYBE you had something to worry about. But I'd be this could've gone on through May and still been done in time to open. They always build in a buffer.
Posted by: not news at March 14, 2007 7:43 AM
There is RE and business activity going on behind the scenes by HC people and Minneapolis insiders getting situated to make a lot of money on changes to the downtown area as a result of this stadium.
That is what is making this thing drag out. Nothing more.........nothing less.
When this stadium is finally started it will be interesting to follow the money trail and find out who made a killing on it, how they did it, and who looked the other way while it went on.
Posted by: carl at March 14, 2007 7:47 AM
what do you click on to read the news at the link that shane and rational actor posted?
Posted by: victor at March 14, 2007 9:06 AM
Not sure if anyone else has noticed, but the New Stadium page on the Twins website no longer has the artist renderings of the proposed ballpark. Perhaps this is a good thing and they're getting ready to put some REAL pictures up with that link.
Posted by: kevin in az at March 14, 2007 10:09 AM
Kev - that could be a "good thing" or a "very bad thing" depending on what side you're on. Also, with all the media attention, both TV and print, that this issue received over the past month, I'm more than a little curious about why this tidbit hasn't been picked up and expanded on? at least by the Strib?
Posted by: Stadiumshill at March 14, 2007 10:26 AM
Yes, I meant http://www.twinsballpark.org not .com.
I realize some of you are thinking that I have jumped the gun, but again I trust where this information is coming from.
Who knows when the Strib will publish the nitty-gritty, but it is obvious that work is continuing on the design of the ballpark.
As freealonzo said two months ago "this is typical for large complicated deals like this. There's a lot of grandstanding and fingerpointing but at the end, it all gets done."
Posted by: Shane at March 14, 2007 11:21 AM
"Now that you losers appear to have your stadium, what will you be whining for next? just so I can start saving my money to contribute. Let's see.
Buses I'll never ride in: check!
Light rail I'll never see the inside of: check!
museums/theaters I never knew existed: check!
stadium that I'll never see: check!"
It seems that you never get out of the house. Now who's the loser?!
"what else can there be? I'm sure you'll come up with something. How 'bout I pay for your education so you can use that against me to come up with something else to take my money for. That's great! just great."
If you don't want to pay taxes then move to a deserted island and hide your head in the sand!
Posted by: start the madness at March 14, 2007 11:43 AM
I don't see how anyone can afford to get out.
why don't I just give you everything I make, to spend as you see fit, then you kick me in the nuts and we'll call it a day?
Tax is such an ugly word. How about "quality of life fee"
Posted by: Kaz at March 14, 2007 12:17 PM
We ignored you the first time Stop the Madness, do we have to ignore you again?
Posted by: freealonzo at March 14, 2007 12:52 PM
"I do not know on what principles of reasoning it is that good men think the public ought to pay more for a thing than they would themselves if they wanted it." --Thomas Jefferson
Posted by: Kaz at March 14, 2007 1:06 PM
If this turns into a debate about the very necessity of paying taxes, my head may explode.
Posted by: Aaron at March 14, 2007 1:53 PM
"Buses I'll never ride in: check!
Light rail I'll never see the inside of: check!
museums/theaters I never knew existed: check!
stadium that I'll never see: check!"
A portion of your federal tax dollars are helping the city of Grand Forks to build massive dikes to prevent another Red River Flood. Residents of the Forks, myself included, are paying the majority of the cost, but every little bit helps.
Thanks for helping to keep my basement dry, Stop the Madness!
Curt in Grand Forks
Posted by: Curt Hanson at March 14, 2007 1:58 PM
Just think of the money I'd have saved if you just didn't build in a hole. Yep, glad I could help. Ooops, here that? there wen't Aaron's head.
Posted by: Stop the Madness at March 14, 2007 2:32 PM
ahh, green grass, the smell of hot dogs on the grill, sun shining down on a warm, lazy minnesota summer afternoon. the crack of the bat, mauer rockets a double just inside the line towards the leftfield corner...and all is right with the world.
Posted by: mullen at March 14, 2007 3:01 PM
Madness, someone had to pay for your education......well, maybe not a lot.........
Sour Grapes make great Wine
Posted by: JBN at March 14, 2007 3:35 PM
Stop the Madness,
Just think of the money you would save if you didn't have internet access...
Posted by: kevin in az at March 14, 2007 4:07 PM
mullen - which of the 5 weekend day games that will actually be warm and sunny, are you fantasizing about?
JBN - Private school, just like my kids. Believe me, I'm paying plenty to educate your monkeys
Kev - internet access is a choice. It's easy for you to "pop off" in your 32nd ranked tax burdened state, while we wallow as the 4th ranked and going up!
Posted by: Stop the madness at March 14, 2007 4:33 PM
We mere citizens don't decide how our tax money is spent. We have elected representatives who do that. I would love to tell the IRS that I'm not paying that portion of my tax bill that goes to finance the Iraq war or fill Halliburton's corporate coffers, but I'm not anxious to be incarcerated. I also don't bitch about it on www.ilovepayingtaxes.com.
Posted by: twayn at March 14, 2007 5:09 PM
Stop the Madness,
There's a very simple solution to your problem...Move to a state with no income tax.
I never had a problem paying taxes in MN, it was the cold weather I hated. AZ is less taxed, but the people here are far less educated and the roads are atrocious. If Minnesotans think the traffic and road conditions are bad, they have NO CLUE!!
You get exactly what you pay for. If you don't feel you're getting your money's worth, move. But this lovely 32nd ranked taxed state taxed itself immensely to build 4 new sports facilities in the past 10 years. Nobody here is complaining about it.
Posted by: kevin in az at March 14, 2007 5:23 PM
this hater needs to find a site where he can commiserate with other bitchers and moaners. i honestly think stadium haters just can't stand to see people happy about something they consider so trivial. maybe their lives suck in some way that they have to bring other people down. i've encountered plenty of them in the ten long years of this saga.
Posted by: mullen at March 14, 2007 6:03 PM
No mullen, it has more to with containing the people who feel justified in imposing the cost of "whatever makes you happy" on other people.
This should all be a love fest, right? we all should just freely share what we earn with everybody else, so we all can live in a utopian society. Great! - you give me 1/2 of what you make first, then I'll get back to you.
You ignoramuses are eager to throw out the overall trivial cost of the ball park as justification; but where does it end, mullen? nickles and dimes add up to dollars and pretty soon we're a socialist society dis incentivised to earn and succeed. But hey, you got your stadium, now you just have to wish for the one sunny day per year you'll get to enjoy it, while the rest of us pay for it for 30 years. The last 15 of which we'll get to hear the Twins whine and complain about how obsolete it is and how they need a dome to ensure attendance from outstate supporters. I'm sure you'll be one of them!
Posted by: Stop the madness at March 14, 2007 6:36 PM
Madness - My Monkeys?
Do you want to explain this further?
As for taxes, It is what it is. EVERYBODY pays for things they either don't want, will never use, or THINK it will be of no use to them.
You could move to a state like Montana. No major "anything" there. Your share of the bill would be a lot lower.
Posted by: JBN at March 14, 2007 7:20 PM
some people need to move on. the tax was passed last year, deal with it. you've had ten years to complain, turn the page.
Posted by: mullen at March 14, 2007 8:36 PM
dear stop the madness,
why are you even on this sight if you are against this? nobody wants to hear your negativity or whining like a little kid not getting what they want. it would be in your best interest to see a doctor who could provide you with some anti anger medication or an anger management class. you are nothing but a twins hater and should visit other websites that suit your interests. go away! seek some anger management classes online--i am sure you will find plenty in your area. everybody but you wants this stadium and i am sure there are other people on this site that have to pay for it too and are fine with it. there are things i have to pay for but i have no control over it and still pay for it and you dont hear me whining so stop and use your head and think about that.
Posted by: victor at March 14, 2007 8:38 PM
Feels great to finally sit back and relax.
Posted by: RichP at March 14, 2007 9:09 PM
Green grass, open sky, upper deck view of downtown Minneapolis and the Target Center. Wish I was bor 10 earlier so I could've had a baseball experience at the met. At least my nephews' memories of a Twins game will be better than mine. Can't wait til 2010.
Posted by: richp at March 14, 2007 9:13 PM
Green grass, open sky, upper deck view of downtown Minneapolis and the Target Center. Wish I was born 10 years earlier so I could've had a baseball experience at the Met. At least my nephews' memories of a Twins game as a kid will be better than mine. Can't wait til 2010.
Posted by: richp at March 14, 2007 9:14 PM
I THOUGHT THEY WERE MEETING TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY? ANY NEWS OUT OF THOSE MEETINGS YET?
Posted by: victor at March 14, 2007 9:16 PM
The moniker is "Stop the madness" not Stop the stadium! It is sad the way you guys mindlessly accept the imposition of taxes and paying for what you don't utilize. Heck, some of you guys are actually supporting it! Apathy! resignation to and acceptance of totalitarianism. Give you a stadium and you're all okay with the current state of affairs. In the grand scheme of things, that was a pretty cheap bribe to buy your conformance.
I'm not angry. Just sad.
Posted by: Stop the madness at March 14, 2007 9:34 PM
If Stop the Madness had spent any amount of time on this site over the past two or three years, he would clearly realize that virtually no one here "mindlessly accept[s] the imposition of taxes and paying for what you don't utilize." It's pretty obvious that we all realize and accept the imposition of taxes, and Shane has gone on record MANY times that he actually enjoys paying the extra three cents on twenty dollars to help fund the stadium. As far as the "paying for what you don't utilize", I bet many of us here have never needed police intervention to assist with a problem, but yet our tax dollars still pay salaries for police officers, and personally, I enjoy the safety of knowing that. I'm not even going to get into the totalitarianism comment.
Posted by: Aaron at March 15, 2007 7:01 AM
STM -- it sounds like you have quite the superiority complex. It's humbling to know that my public-tax-dollar financed law degree makes me a monkey compared to you. And by the way, talking down to your audience is a sure-fire way to get them to listen. Keep it up.
Contrary to your beliefs, you do not have a right to pay for only the things you want, and nothing for the things you don't. This isn't the a la carte line, it's prix fixe. Get over it. I'm not sure where you got the idea in the first place, because one of the bedrock principles of living in a society is that everyone shares the burden of sustaining the society. You may like to think that you don't "need" the things you don't utilize, but that view only reveals your failure to appreciate the value of anything that is not directly in front of your nose.
If you aren't happy with the direction society is going, then you have several options: 1) move to a different society (preferably far away from here); 2) become politically active and try to persuade society that it is wrong (I don't think you'll have much success, but don't let me stop you); or 3) check out from society all together and see how well you do living in a log cabin, collecting firewood, scavenging for food, and treating your illnesses with natural remedies (best of luck). So, for the sake of us all on the board, please select one of the above options and be on your way. You sound like someone intelligent enough to know that you are not wanted here.
You may not like some of the things society chooses to support with its taxes, but in a DEMOCRATIC society, the majority rules.
Posted by: The Tube at March 15, 2007 10:29 AM
Tube - You had me until your "majority rules" comment. That hasn't been the case in our society for a long time. There's been a vocal minority that has run over a silent majority for some time.
Posted by: Kaz at March 15, 2007 10:40 AM
Indeed. I am also uncertain to what degree a ballpark sustains society.
I want to see a new ballpark as much as anyone but have a huge problem with the way this one was rammed down the throats of voters who were supposed to have a say in the matter. We are going to be paying for this ediface for thirty years while the Pohlads will have their money back almost immediately. I realize that I am in "ballpark however we can get one" waters,but, can you guys really say with a straight face that this was accomplished fairly?
Posted by: BMac at March 15, 2007 11:22 AM
BMac - by "rammed down the throats of voters" I assume you mean there was no referendum. If every project was put to a referendum, 99.99% of them would be voted down, especially in Minnesota. Think of the things that would not exist. The Metrodome, Mall of America, Xcel Energy Center, Light Rail, Target Center, etc. etc. People would see "Do you favor raising your taxes for______" on a ballet, and the majority would vote "no." Personally, I think Minnesota would be a far less desireable place to live. And, I'll put my money where my mouth is. I am glad to chip in and pay for these things to make Minnesota a better place to live.
Posted by: Jeff T. at March 15, 2007 11:39 AM
you need to set the correct date in your back to the future time machine. it ain't 1997, the tax passed the legislature, the board was reelected and the world didn't end. it wasn't rammed down the throats of anyone. ten years of debate and bitching isn't ramming down something.
Posted by: mullen at March 15, 2007 11:47 AM
The fact the board was re-elected doesn't prove public acceptance of this issue, it only proves people don't care and don't pay attention, which means clowns like Oputz will continue to beeatch slap the majority until he's told to stop.
Getting back to the topic at hand; the Oyaas statement was floated more than 48 hours ago and no media outlet has picked up or followed up on what should be a significant event, this "soon to be announced" announcement? strange.
Posted by: Kaz at March 15, 2007 12:25 PM
then i guess people don't care and don't pay attention, sucks for you.
Posted by: mullen at March 15, 2007 12:47 PM
Kaz -- in the process of editing I mistakenly left in the "majority rules" comment. I meant to delete it, due in part to your observation, and also because it is rather trite.
Posted by: The Tube at March 15, 2007 12:51 PM
"The fact the board was re-elected doesn't prove public acceptance of this issue, it only proves people don't care and don't pay attention, which means clowns like Oputz will continue to beeatch slap the majority until he's told to stop."
And what evidence do you have to support your assertion that people don't care and don't pay attention? The stadium tax was ALL OVER the news when it was being debated, there was rampant speculation that the board would be thrown out. And it never happened. I, for one, don't take that as an indication that people "weren't paying attention." Does it mean that people don't care? That's one spin to put on it -- by no means the definitive answer though. It is just as likely that the silent majority approved of the Board's work, in direct contrast to the very vocal minority.
Also, this was not rammed down the throats of the voters. The voters DID have a say in the matter when they elected the Board and the Legislators the first time, and when they re-elected them after the passage of the stadium bill. Voters don't get to step in and have a referendum every time it looks like their elected representatives are about to act in a way that they dislike. Voters choose their representatives to make these decisions because governance can't be micromanaged, and if every "important decision" has to be taken directly to the voting public then why entrust representatives at all? The representatives were simply doing their jobs. If the voters don't like the way their representatives are doing their jobs, they can elect new representatives to "undo" what they disliked.
Posted by: The Tube at March 15, 2007 1:00 PM
Okay - Here's the deal. I live in Western Hennepin County. My State Rep is Steve Smith - He voted "No" at the State level. My State Senator is Gen Olson - She voted "No" at the State level. My County Commissioner is Penny Steele - She voted "No" at the County level.
According to your theory, what recourse do I have? That's why a referrendum was needed and that's why a referrendum was bypassed. It wouldn't have passed.
The commissioners that supported the stadium represented largely uneducated and illinformed districts. That's a fact.
Any posistion that the "people spoke" and that "we have representation and a chance at recourse" is just plain wrong. This is a CLASSIC example of a vocal minority running over a silenced (not silent) majority. It's just the way it is.
Posted by: Kaz at March 15, 2007 1:12 PM
isn't there a forum for you someplace besides a blog that celebrates and is actually enthused about a new twins ballpark? why do you have to come here and bring down the room?
Posted by: mullen at March 15, 2007 1:27 PM
KAZ - Can you explain something to me? How is the following statement from your last post a "fact:"
"The commissioners that supported the stadium represented largely uneducated and illinformed districts."
That seems like an "opinion" to me.
Posted by: Jeff T. at March 15, 2007 1:38 PM
Kaz -- I think it is simply easier for you to believe that either A) you are truly in the majority and that the "majority" has just been silenced, or B) if you are in the minority it's because the true majority is uneducated and ill-informed. To me, that smacks of self-preservation: either way you win.
While I might agree with you on the latter observation if we were talking about more complex issues of national security and international diplomacy, I think most people are intelligent enough to grasp the impact of building a local professional sports venue. All rhetoric aside about "economic benefits" the simple facts are these:
1) Stadiums don't build themselves unless they are located in a market that has HUGE revenue streams, therefore most cities that want pro teams have to help out. That's the way the game works.
2) Twin Citians like seeing themselves as living in a "Big League" city that has all the amenities of such cities: arts, business, dining, and athletics.
3) The Twin Cities would lose the Twins without a new stadium.
The end result is that a new stadium had to be built, and Twin Citians needed to chip in for it. And while only certain people will directly benefit from the stadium by going to the games, the entire metro area will indirectly benefit from the "Big League" status that retaining the Twins and building a new stadium will preserve. Noisily claiming that you shouldn't have to pay for that benefit is a bit like George Costanza claiming that he shouldn't have to chip in for a cab uptown because Jerry and Kramer were taking a cab in that direction anyway.
You may like to think that people don't care about pro sports, but do you remember the North Stars? Have you seen what happened with the Houston Oilers, the Cleveland Browns, the Baltimore Colts, and the Charlotte Hornets? Teams leave, there's a public outcry, and eventually the cities build a new arena/stadium to lure another team at a cost greater than what they could have paid to prevent the original team from leaving in the first place. Why go down that path?
Posted by: The Tube at March 15, 2007 3:12 PM
That's quite a noble view you have. The truth is, if the people of Hennepin County felt a sense of responsibility towards the betterment of the "Twin Cities" then a referrendum should've been allowed. By your assessment, there was nothing to fear as it would've passed.
My position is this; I agree it's a metro wide amenity, for that reason the State or at least the 7 county metro area should participate and anybody who supports the way this stadium was imposed soley on the constituents of Hennepin County - 2/3rds of the population which couldn't and can't voice their opinion by voting their representatives out, is simply interested in the short sighted position of "as long we get a stadium" and every other policy that gets effected against your wishes, from this point on, in the same manner, is exactly what you deserve.
Posted by: Kaz at March 15, 2007 3:25 PM
KAZ is correct. Carl should have built his own stadium with his own money. It is wrong to tax Hennepin County residents and especially wrong to not have a referendum on it.
That being said it certainly appears that this stadium is DOA anyway. First land issues, next cost overruns, then Pohlad will start squeeking about how he never committed any additional money, blah blah blah.
It will never get built and that is a good thing.
Posted by: lentil at March 15, 2007 3:42 PM
representative democracy, the majority did in fact rule that early sunday morning last spring by one vote. the entire state is paying everytime they spend money in hennepin county.
Posted by: mullen at March 15, 2007 3:57 PM
Great. Let's widen Hwy 55 to 4 lanes in each direction by implementing a sales tax in St. Louis County. The whole western half of the state will benefit and whenever any body shops in Duluth, they'll be helping to pay for it.
What a knob.
Posted by: Kaz at March 15, 2007 4:01 PM
Well put Tube.
I honestly find it really strange that people ask for a referendum. To put simply, we elect representatives to pass legislation in our collective best interests. I think these representatives have the responsibility to educate themselves about the issues more thoroughly than Joe Average. Our representatives should then consider the best course of action. If we demand that all large projects get the majority of public approval then we get nothing. There are far too many people out there that do not see the value in museums, libraries, parks, public universities, research, stadiums, etc.
Bluntly, referendums allow politicians to keep their jobs without making difficult decisions.
Posted by: TimR at March 15, 2007 4:22 PM
I'd like the people who argue "representative democracy" contrast that principle against the existence of the electoral college.
Don't prove your ignorance by tossing out terms you heard or read but know nothing about. Representative Democracy had NOTHING to do with this issue.
Posted by: Kaz at March 15, 2007 4:28 PM
Sigh... Okay, I understand that the purpose of the Electoral College is to protect the rights of the minority. Makes sense and it is a good system.
This still doesn't change the fact that our politicians should know more about any given issue than Joe Average. We don't just select a random representative of the people to serve us. We (okay, I'm stretching here) select the wise ones that are willing to learn about the outstanding issues and act accordingly.
Posted by: TimR at March 15, 2007 4:33 PM
61 comments about what a nice day it was. sigh...
We're giving STM/Lentil/ and whatever other handle the shmuck wants to use exactly what he/she wants, ATTENTION.
oh well. I guess some people just weren't hugged enough when they were little.
Posted by: Drake33 at March 15, 2007 4:36 PM
I love stadium haters, i equate them to those who enjoy the smell of their own farts.
Posted by: Jokes on You at March 15, 2007 4:41 PM
Who doesn't like the smell of their own farts?
Posted by: Kaz at March 15, 2007 5:07 PM
Um, did I miss an announcement that a deal has been reached. Reading this post was like seeing Police Academy 2 without seeing Police Academy 1 first (well except funnier with less sound effects).
Posted by: jlichty at March 15, 2007 5:27 PM
Entering hour 49 with out any media source backing up Oyaas mystery announcement.....anybody getting nervous?
Posted by: Stop the madness at March 15, 2007 5:35 PM
yea im getting really really nervous stop the madness. will you hold me? gee, no other media sources yet, oh what will we do? maybe you can make the same comment three times in one day?
Posted by: mullen at March 15, 2007 6:12 PM
Sorry STM, but i hope this story is correct, not only for this 10-year nightmare to be over, but to irk you and your ilk also.
Posted by: RichP at March 15, 2007 6:13 PM
"My position is this; I agree it's a metro wide amenity, for that reason the State or at least the 7 county metro area should participate and anybody who supports the way this stadium was imposed soley on the constituents of Hennepin County - 2/3rds of the population which couldn't and can't voice their opinion by voting their representatives out, is simply interested in the short sighted position of "as long we get a stadium" and every other policy that gets effected against your wishes, from this point on, in the same manner, is exactly what you deserve"
Well Kaz, in 1997 the STATE legislature had a bill which would have spread the entire burden across the state and it failed (Arne Carlson's dime tax on Smokes). It failed mostly in part because of your Hennepin County legislators, particularly the MPLS and west metro delegation that you love so much. Now they're the ones being stuck with the bill to pay and now whining because it wasn't spread across the metro area or state...BOO HOO HOO. We would have had a retractable roof ballpark on the river instead of ANOTHER theatre. It would have cost less and we'd be opening up our 6th season in it next month had that bill been passed.
Now only Hennepin Cty is paying more for one without a roof, next to a garbage dump.
You had your chance YEARS AGO to spread the burden, but the most vocal critics were within the Hennepin delegation.
Posted by: kevin in az at March 15, 2007 6:43 PM
"Great. Let's widen Hwy 55 to 4 lanes in each direction by implementing a sales tax in St. Louis County. The whole western half of the state will benefit and whenever any body shops in Duluth, they'll be helping to pay for it.
What a knob."
Thanks for the thought. It is a whole lot more logical than some of the issues passed by our current HC representatives. You should run for office.
Posted by: Jimmy Jack at March 15, 2007 9:09 PM
Kev - what medicinal marijuana trip were you on when you came up with that line of crap? Poetic Justice? the only thing remotely approaching poetic justice in this saga is the fact that you're out in AZ. Proof that our cold winters keeps the rif raf out!
Posted by: Kaz at March 15, 2007 10:18 PM
Hey Kaz, do you know that Penny Steele's middle name is the same as yours? Is that a coincidence or...Penny is it really you as Kaz and this is part of your prescribed theapy?
Posted by: Jimmy Jack at March 15, 2007 10:33 PM