< Don't worry about it | Main | Conflicting points of view >

March 18, 2007

1979 vs. 2007

Neal Broten's game winning goal in the 1979 National Championship vs. North Dakota:

Blake Wheeler's game winning goal in the 2007 WCHA Championship vs. North Dakota:

Yet another great moment in Gopher hockey history.

Posted by snackeru at March 18, 2007 9:58 AM

Comments

Did you happen to see the interview with Dave St. Peter during the game? He's optimistic that in the near future it will be worked out and the stadium designs will be presented. He said lots of progress has been made.

Great game last night! Don't know what I would do without DirecTV.

Posted by: kevin in az at March 18, 2007 10:08 AM

Thanks for pointing that out Kevin. Like I said, let's stop worrying about it. The stadium will be built and we'll be enjoying outdoor baseball in 2010.

Funny how a post about hockey can turn into a post about the stadium. Anyone at the X last night? Was it pandemonium after that goal?

Posted by: Shane at March 18, 2007 10:20 AM

Dave St. Peter optimistic about a stadium? What are they going to think of next!

Posted by: BMac at March 18, 2007 11:36 AM

Did you see what jersey St Peter was wearing.....Go Sioux!

Posted by: MOJO at March 18, 2007 11:54 AM

i hope they can translate this great wcha stretch into the ncaa tournament. it'd be a shame to not win a national championship with so much young talent around. talent that in some cases will be going pro soon.

Posted by: mullen at March 18, 2007 12:41 PM

Yes, he seems like a nice guy but the Sioux jersey he wore explained a lot to me. I always wondered where he received his education. It would take a UND graduate to be the architect of this new radio network. A previous network that was in-tact since the team moved to MN in 1961 - and a very successful one at that. A flagship station which I could pick up in Albuquerque at night. Now the flagship is one which you can barely pick up in Robbinsdale at night through static.

His leadership is exactly why I'm scared to see what the designs of the ballpark look like. Given some of the fans ideas that he likes to highlight on his blog, I'm frightened as a baseball purist. If there's an awning that covers more than a third of the upper deck, I'm boycotting!!! Bring a frickin umbrella if it rains! Don't block the sunshine!

Posted by: kevin in az at March 18, 2007 2:46 PM

Bad Day for Bucky. Can't get to the Sweet 16 in B-Ball and couldn't get in Hockey Tourney to defend their fluke championship of last year. Ladies won the hockey championship so ain't all that bad.

I did throw up in my mouth a little when I saw St. Peter in that Fightin' Sioux sweater.

Posted by: freealonzo at March 18, 2007 6:38 PM

I thought it was pretty sweet to see St Peter in the Sioux sweater.

Although I am a Sioux fan I do have to admit that Blake Wheeler's game winning goal last night was pretty damn awesome!

GO Sioux!!!

Posted by: MOJO at March 18, 2007 7:29 PM

I'm a purist myself and I've worried about the same thing. I'm not going to an outdoor baseball game only to sit in the shade. I will definitely make sure my season tickets are not under any awning.

I've also heard that because of the low number of outfield seats, the upper deck behind home plate and down both lines will protrude out and cover alot of lower deck seats. If true, this is very disappointing.

I also worry because of the small building site, that the fences will be in too far, and we'll see alot of routine fly balls going for HR's. Ballparks like that are a mockery of the game. For a team that prides itself in pitching, that would not be good. Hopefully the people in charge of design have enough brains to build this thing right.

Posted by: John at March 19, 2007 12:58 AM

Could someone post a link to Dave St. Peter's blog?

Posted by: john at March 19, 2007 11:18 AM

John - here you go:

http://twinsballpark.mlblogs.com/

Hasn't been updated since 2/13....

Posted by: Jeff T. at March 19, 2007 11:20 AM

Apparently St. Peter read Jeff's comment as his blog got updated today.

Posted by: Mark Snyder at March 19, 2007 12:57 PM

Nice blog entry St. Peter!

[b]Rest assured, over the past several weeks the Twins organization has gotten heavily involved in discussions with the private landowners, the County and the City of Minneapolis.[/b]

Several weeks!?! how long does it take to say "we'll cover the condemnation costs over 13.5m?

Posted by: Kaz at March 19, 2007 1:13 PM

I read the blog. This stadium ain't happenin man.

I think what happened is Carl thought with a stadium deal under his belt a buyer would come out of the woodwork so he could finally dump the team but that never happened.

He doesn't want to put money into this stadium and get locked into the deal. Carl has pulled this several times already and everytime it comes to putting money up and shutting up he clams up and folds his wallet and walks away.

It ain't happenin and I would bet $500 on it.

Posted by: beto at March 19, 2007 1:13 PM

It would be nice of Oyaas defined "soon" in his blog entry. According to St. Peter, this can run till August and still make a 2010 completion date? highly unlikely! I don't think you want to use up all your built in cushion in the schedule, before you even get started.

With weather delays and other "acts of God," if this issue isn't resolved by this time April.....I want to know where I apply for my sales tax refund!

Posted by: Stop the madness at March 19, 2007 2:32 PM

next week to ten days sport. take your sedative now.

Posted by: mullen at March 19, 2007 2:38 PM

next week to ten days what? what does that mean?

Posted by: victor at March 19, 2007 4:46 PM

kevin,

I shared some of your concerns about the radio network, but actually the KSTP signal comes in better in my Minneapolis office than WCCO ever did, and I haven't had any problems with it yet driving out through the suburbs. And the Twins have added a number of new outstate affiliates, including one in my hometown (southwest Minnesota) where we previously couldn't get a listenable signal from WCCO or any other affiliate.

For all the stink raised about it, and even my own concerns, the Twins seem to have handled the radio switch surprisingly well. Maybe we'll hear a bit more about it once the season starts, but through spring training, I haven't heard any problems yet.

Posted by: spycake at March 19, 2007 8:03 PM

Oh, and congrats to the Gophers hockey team. By the way, what NHL club are they a farm team for? ;)

Posted by: spycake at March 19, 2007 8:04 PM

"I read the blog. This stadium ain't happenin man.

I think what happened is Carl thought with a stadium deal under his belt a buyer would come out of the woodwork so he could finally dump the team but that never happened.

He doesn't want to put money into this stadium and get locked into the deal. Carl has pulled this several times already and everytime it comes to putting money up and shutting up he clams up and folds his wallet and walks away.

It ain't happenin and I would bet $500 on it."

Looks like you're gonna loose $500 dollars then. It'll suck to be you beto.

Posted by: RichP. at March 19, 2007 8:27 PM

Regarding the $500 bet, I'd like a piece of that action Beto. I assume it will be payable when ground is broken?

Regarding the radio network, as long as 570 WNAX in Yankton, SD and the Mighty 790 KFGO in Fargo are still part of the network, the change to KSTP should be a non-issue for most people. Like WCCO, both of these stations are 50,000 watt blow torches. Truthfully, they could have covered all of Twins Territory with those 3 stations alone. The Twins have what is probably the most extensive radio network in the majors. I understand there may be some issues in western Wisconsin, but certainly those folks should be able to get either WNAX or KFGO at night if not during the day.

Posted by: David Howe at March 20, 2007 1:28 AM

The stadium will not be guaranteed until something irreversible is accomplished. Upto this point, all we have is cheap talk and a tax, neither of which proves decisive in politics.

Until Hennepin County takes or purchases and closes on the property, I remain very skeptical that this will happen.

Posted by: Stop the madness at March 20, 2007 8:34 AM

Regarding the Twins on KSTP; is anyone else going to be driven crazy by that same guitar riff that serves as a bumper between each half inning and the commercials? One of the things I did like about the Twins on WCCO was the variety of bumper music you could expect between innings, alot of it by Minnesota artists. I know maybe most people don't even notice this but to me it is already becoming an irratation.
-Jiminstpaul

Posted by: Jiminstpaul at March 20, 2007 1:47 PM

The bumper music on WCCO was awesome. It was amazingly hip for what is widely regarded as an "old folks" AM talk/news station. I haven't had a chance to listen closely to the spring training games, but I could see this becoming an annoyance.

Also, the other KSTP programming I've heard before/after games has been dreadful (although I'm told Mischke is good over the noon hour, and I suspect Reusse/Souhan might not be bad). I probably won't leave my radio on like I did with WCCO.

Posted by: spycake at March 20, 2007 2:52 PM

"It ain't happenin and I would bet $500 on it."

I'd like a piece of that myself.

Go ahead and define terms. Or are you just blowing smoke, Beto?

Posted by: tato at March 20, 2007 3:17 PM

Stop The Madness wrote:

"The stadium will not be guaranteed until something irreversible is accomplished. Upto this point, all we have is cheap talk and a tax, neither of which proves decisive in politics."

Maybe cheap talk and a tax aren't enough. What you are forgetting, however, is selfish motive, which is almost ALWAYS decisive in politics.

While there is a serious dispute here, all the parties involved (LPII, Twins, Opatz and HC) have a selfish common interest in ensuring the stadium is built.

Unfortunately for you, STM, the stadium haters no longer have a place at the table. Hence the deal will get done.

Posted by: tato at March 20, 2007 3:23 PM

Tato writes: "all the parties involved (LPII, Twins, Opatz and HC) have a selfish common interest in ensuring the stadium is built."

I would think the selfish motive for each would depend on a number of things including what LPII thinks the land is really worth, whether Carl Pohlad was thinking a buyer would come forward because he does not want to put another dime in the team, HC & Opatz staying in office despite their utter incompetence.

Your mistake is assuming their selfish common interest is the same as your selfish interest; a stadium bought and paid for by others.

Posted by: mary at March 20, 2007 3:46 PM

One thing I heard about Twins owning the radio rights is that commercial breaks will be 5 seconds less between innings meaning we don't have to suffer with Gordon or Dazzle describing what happened the past two pitches as the 3rd pitch of the inning is heading toward the plate.

Posted by: Freealonzo at March 20, 2007 3:48 PM

Mary: here is my take on the selfish motivations.

LPII - Despite their posturing, their actions speak far louder than their words: Lambrecht and Pogin CLEARLY want a stadium. This is completely consistent with trying to get top dollar for the land.

Carl Pohlad - Without a Stadium deal, there is no question that the value of the Minnesota Twins drops by tens (perhaps hundreds) of millions of dollars.

HC/Opatz - You yourself prove their selfish motive. If the deal falls apart, they look utterly incompetent. With a stadium, they save some face.

Whether this aligns with MY interests is beside the point, as I have no part in the negotiations.

Posted by: tato at March 20, 2007 3:54 PM

tato - all you're proving is that interpretation along with "selfish motivations" is subjective depending on which side you're on;

All LPII's actions display is that they want as much $ as humanly possible for their land. If that comes with a stadium fine, if it comes through whatever promises Hines has made them, then that's okay too. A stadium to those guys is secondary.

Pohlad's a billionaire. How does the fear of losing tens of millions of dollars motivate him over his principle. He's made it a personal mission to get a half billion dollar asset for his team with out putting "dime one" in for longer than a couple of years. If he wanted a stadium, he could've built one himself a decade ago for half of what's being budgeted now (with a roof) and enjoyed his teams increased value. That's his "actions" speaking there.

Nothing can save HC/Opat from looking foolish. They can stop from looking more foolish by standing strong and not throwing good money after bad, but the RISK of proceeding and incurring maybe insurmountable costs and obstacles down the road is holding up Opat from taking action.

See, I don't think anybody's interests (in this opinion) necessarily align with "building a stadium."

Posted by: Stop the madness at March 20, 2007 4:48 PM

Which 'side' one is on is beside the point. How do you know which 'side' I am on?

I think it is pretty clear that a dis-interested party would agree that building a baseball stadium is in the best interests of a) the owner of the parking lot on which it would be built (a parking lot for which no other project has been identified) b) the team that will play in it and make millions in additional revenue, and c) the govt. officials who effectively promised it would be done.

Your hypothetical alternative motives have no basis in reality. Pohlad building himself a stadium when he can get it subsidized? Come on, how do you think he got to be a Billionaire? Politicians admitting that they made a mistake? You're living in a dream world...

Whether or not it is in the best interest of the people actually paying for it is, of course, endlessly debatable. But as I pointed out, those folks no longer have a seat at the table. Hence, the stadium will be built. Our 'sides' have nothing to do with it.

Posted by: tato at March 20, 2007 5:41 PM

I'd really like to know where this information about Pohlad counting on a buyer coming forward is coming from. I'm guessing you're pulling it out of thin air (to put it nicely)? One of the most unique provisions of this bill is the 18% provision that says HC gets 18% of the proceeds on a declining basis if the team is sold in the first 10 years. While I'm not sure if this provision has already kicked in or kicks in when the stadium opens, if selling the team so that he didn't have to put up the money was his intent the Twins would never have agreed to this provision.

Posted by: David Howe at March 20, 2007 6:30 PM

Politicians don't need to admit they made mistakes. The public and the media are very willing and capable of pointing out errors, flip flops and failed efforts, for a long time after the fact. A failed promise to build a stadium would pass a lot faster than a quagmire of cost overuns, blown budgets and additional funding for a substandard facility. THAT is what's keeping Opat from taking action. If it was a simple as "just delivering a stadium" the land issue would be over by now.

And of course Pohlad is only interested in seeing this built for nothing, otherwise he would've committed to back stopping the condemnation by now as opposed to risking appearing like a schmuck for letting Hennepin County dangle over a pawltry 10M in the grand scheme of things.

My point is; where there is politicians and billionaires, there's massive ego's. Deals like this have blown up over a lot less than what's been talked about in the papers already!

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. In other words, "save my seat at the table."

Posted by: Stop the madness at March 20, 2007 6:39 PM

BREAKING NEWS!!!

http://www.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=55

Dave St. Peter will be on the FSN broadcast and KSTP radio station in about 10 minutes to announce that there has been significant progress made in terms of acquiring the land.

Posted by: Erik at March 20, 2007 6:40 PM

Bids are now being accepted, Unveiling of new design could be on April 5th. Construction should start around May 1st. Jerry Bells words.

Posted by: JBN at March 20, 2007 6:51 PM

Jerry Bell on the twins broadcast tonight, bids are going out next week. We'll see it April 5th. In your face you stadium hating freaks. Make sure to shop Hennepin County often, I will!

Posted by: Stadium Haters Suck at March 20, 2007 6:51 PM

It was great to hear the news from Mr. Bell. He has more reason to be happy about this then anyone.

Posted by: David Howe at March 20, 2007 6:55 PM

Sorry STM, looks like the madness will contine. Time start fully thinking about butterflies.

Posted by: Continue The Madness at March 20, 2007 7:05 PM

SHS - That 8 bucks in tax you generate will be appreciated.

Good news, now we can focus on all that is wrong and will be wrong with the stadium. Its already started - not enough seats in the sun!

When this is done and its decided that it sucks more in real life than it did in idea form, I will RLMAO and in 2013 when there's 8500 paid on opening day....I will RLMAO again!

Later losers. Go Vikes!! (baseball is a competition, NOT a sport.)

Santana on the BoSox in 2009!

Posted by: Iwantmymoneyback at March 20, 2007 7:05 PM

Hahaha - you guys are soooo hungry for something, ANYTHING that you'll take lip service (literally and figuratively) from a Stadium shill like Bell.

Solicit bids - great. Show designs (why April 5th? I thought they were supposed to be done a month ago.)- super great!

Sounds like desperation for progress to me. Their backs are up against the wall. Let's see BNSF easments negotiated, trail and tree hugger groups appeased, bonds sold, EIS debated and voted upon, a development agreement negotiated, debated, voted on and passed and construction starting by May.

How about taking control of the land first! I want whatever Bell is smoking!

Posted by: Stop the madness at March 20, 2007 7:26 PM

suck it hater. why don't you get a life instead of trolling this site every minute of your day.

Posted by: mullen at March 20, 2007 8:25 PM

mullen. You crack me up. Better start saving now for your ticket under the canopy!

What's the matter? you were too uncoordinated to pick up bowling, so you decided to become a baseball fan?

Posted by: Stop the madness at March 20, 2007 8:53 PM

Did Bell say that construction will begin May 1st?

Posted by: Terrance Mann at March 20, 2007 9:04 PM

Yes, and that the ground breaking will probably begin in August.

I am pumped!

Posted by: Erik at March 20, 2007 9:14 PM

stop the madness,
you are a loser. why and the .... are you even on this page? go away. nobody cares what you think. this stadium is happening whether you like it or not. so get over it. as for "iwantmymoneyback" santana isnt going anywhere. they couldnt sign all of the superstars cuz they didnt know about the stadium. i just read that they will spend more money now that it is a go. they will lock them all up.

Posted by: victor at March 20, 2007 9:38 PM

Victor's on the same shrooms as Bell.

Enjoy your 20 dollar seat under the canopy watching a meaningless competition between two valueless clubs on one of your 3 bright sunny afternoons. I'll be golfing or fishing.

and, Santana is good as gone. Go hug your bobbleheads and cry yourself to sleep. I don't and won't shop in Hennepin County anyway, so it's now skin of my a$$.

Posted by: Stop the madness at March 20, 2007 10:13 PM

thats alright either way. we have always had good young pitching. when the new ballpark opens we will spend lots of money on players. how is the weather any different golfing or fishing than in a baseball stadium? you havent even seen the new designs so quit acting like you know what it looks like. you should really move to kansas or wyoming or rhode island or somewhere where you could make friends on a website instead of critisising everyone. you are probably one of those people who hurt other people to make yourself feel better you loser.

Posted by: victor at March 20, 2007 10:20 PM

The weather isn't different, it's what you do (or don't do, by "watching" baseball) in the weather, that makes a difference.

Watching a baseball competition on a sunny afternoon would be about #47 on most peoples list of things to do on a nice day, right after cleaning the garage and all day root canal.

If I need to "kill" 3 hours, it usually happens on a cold, windy, spring or fall day. There's plenty of options on the nice days. That's why outdoor baseball sucks and why attendance will suffer without a roof. This hastily put together plan will go down in history as one of our (Minnesotas) biggest mistakes.

Your more foolish than I thought, if you think the Twins will spend one penny more on talent as a result of the stadium. Keep dreaming.

Posted by: Stop the madness at March 20, 2007 10:29 PM

Odd that neither of the newspapers nor Sid Hartman have said anything regarding tonight's announcement.

It's even more perplexing after reading the follow-up to the first neal blog referenced in an earlier post.

Posted by: Ray at March 20, 2007 10:51 PM

ok you know it all. i guess everything i read must be a lie. everything i heard also must be a lie. you arent worth arguing with. i have better things to do. later loser.

Posted by: victor at March 20, 2007 10:51 PM

um, the strib story has been online for a few hours now.

http://www.startribune.com/509/story/1068767.html

Posted by: kevin in az at March 20, 2007 11:37 PM

STM, if watching an outdoor Major League Baseball game is #47 on your list of things to do on a nice day, fine good for you. But why the hell are you even wasting your time on a website devoted to building a stadium for exactly that purpose? Watching the Women's LPGA Dinah Shore Classic in person is probably my #47 thing to do on a nice day, but I waste no time on websites ripping it.

If you hate baseball, and as you state you don't shop in HC, then this whole thing really doesn't effect you at all. Despite this, you've given us your very loud opinion of this. Fine. Thanks for sharing. On a site devoted to the stadium most of us don't agree with you. Have a nice day.

Posted by: David Howe at March 21, 2007 5:00 AM

Victor – no offense meant. I hadn’t seen any story when I posted and thought it should be on their start page since it seemed significant. I notice that it is there now.

Kevin in az – thanks for the link.

Posted by: Ray at March 21, 2007 6:56 AM

Howe - If the Dinah Shore Classic came in and imposed a tax on you to build a new golf course to host the event, I bet you'd be more interested, or maybe you're just one of the lemmings that don't get involved if it doesn't affect you?

Like I wrote earlier and is being reinforced in the Strib article. This "release" by the Twins is nothing more than a desperate attempt to maintain enthusiasm and momentum. Not one other party to the negotiations has supported the Twins in their assessment of the current state. The bottom line is; they HAVE to solicit bids right now or risk losing their place in line for pile driving in August.

Posted by: STM at March 21, 2007 7:10 AM

From the Star Trib article "Hennepin County Commissioner Mike Opat, the lead stadium negotiator for the county board, said late Tuesday that it would be premature to say a deal to move forward with the ballpark's construction had been reached."

Sounds to me like Bell was desperately blathering again to keep up enthusiam for 300,000 ball park fans.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2007 7:40 AM

STM is right that time has probably run out for the Twins. I'm also sure that they intended to use the announcement to put pressure on Comm. Opat. I certainly don't think it was a vote of confidence for Opat particularly when there's no commitment of money.

But I don't believe their statements are all "spin" so there has to be some belief on their part that this is close to resolution.

The announcement of dates, along with the upcoming county board meeting on the 27th, means that this will finally be resolved one way or the other in a week or two.

The critical point will be the board meeting so we won't have long to wait.

That should be good news no matter how you feel about the ballpark.

Posted by: Ray at March 21, 2007 7:43 AM

STM, if the Dinah Shore Classic came and wanted to impose a tax to build a new golf course and I was against it, I'd call and write my legislator and ask them to oppose it. I woudn't however go on a blog for supporters of said tournament and start ripping it. You have a right to be opposed to the tax in HC, but complaining about it on here's not going to change it and you have said that you don't shop in HC so it shouldn't effect you anyway.

Your arguement that the Twins are blowing smoke about progress being made might hold credence if there was any reason to believe you're not just pulling it out of thin air. If you have some inside information, please tell us who you are and share. Otherwise, I can only assume it's BS and I'll take words of Jerry Bell, who's been involved with this forever and not been known for being full of it, over yours.

Posted by: David Howe at March 21, 2007 7:44 AM

Madness... Stop

I personally appreciate the people who come on this site and provide a well thought out, rational
argument against the stadium. I don't think I know everything and I appreciate a fresh point of view.

However, your arguments are all emotional, and you personally attack the majority on this site. The opportunity to influence this process has passed you and other haters by. All you can do now, is sit back and watch it unfold like the rest of us. You may get what you want and the stadium will fall through or not.

But for a guy who doesn't want to "waste" 3 hours watching baseball, you sure waste a lot of time reading this blog and getting worked up. Do you strive on conflict?? If so, call in to Soucheray or Lars Larson or something. You are wasting your time and spinning your wheels. Read a book, take a walk, just quit trying to rain on everyone elses day.

Posted by: zooomx at March 21, 2007 8:08 AM

Shane,

You... a Gopher fan

Me... a Huskie fan

Do you want to place a Cheesehead like wager on who goes deeper into the NCAA's??

Posted by: zooomx at March 21, 2007 8:11 AM

Considering that the U won't get past UND in the second round, I wouldn't take the bet, Shane!

Curt in Grand Forks

Posted by: Curt Hanson at March 21, 2007 10:59 AM

Jeez, I hate to be on the same side as Shane on a bet, his track record is anemic to say the least! :o)

But I'll get in on some Goldy Action. I've got MN winning it all over Notre Dame.

Posted by: Freealonzo at March 21, 2007 2:16 PM

Zooomx! I accept your challenge! What are your terms? My betting history is about to take a turn for the better!

Posted by: Shane at March 21, 2007 10:02 PM

eXTReMe Tracker
View My Stats