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June 11, 2007
Why do I feel this way?
Hi everyone. I don't think it is any secret that I have grown quite tired of talking, discussing, arguing about a certain ballpark that will be built in Minneapolis. You see, I am under the impression that since the bill is passed, and the ballpark is being built, I don't have to talk about it anymore. Silly me! It would appear that people still want to talk about it. I don't know why, but I really don't.
In all honesty, at this point I would be happy if they just threw a big curtain around the whole Rapid Park site, worked like crazed chipmunks until 2010, and then, like unveiling a sculpture, they could just bring the curtain down and we would all say, "Huh, that looks great! I kind of forgot this thing was even being built. Now, where can I buy a hot dog?" That is how I feel right now about this whole thing.
It is strange, but the old saying that the real fun is in the pursuit of something rather than actually attaining it seems to be true for me. Go figure.
Having said that, this might just be how I feel right now. When it starts getting colder again in September I might want to start thinking about this again. Who knows. Or maybe I'll want to start thinking about this again next week. It is hard to say. But for right now I am content. I am happy. I have nothing to argue about, and I kind of like it. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Now, just to keep up appearances, a certain someone has been asking about why the Minnesota Ballpark Authority exists. Here are some reasons why:
1. Tax Advantage - The county grants the proceeds to an entity it does not control, that allows the bond issue to be tax-exempt. that saves about $90 million versus using taxable debt. I would wager this is a good enough reason alone for the existence of this body, but if you want some more ...
2. The MBA's sole focus is on meeting the legislative directive to get the ballpark open by 2010. The Hennepin County board could not commit that kind of focus to one project (that's one of the reasons the county board turned the management of HCMC over to a broader governance structure).
3. The ballpark site sits at the convergence of several high profile public projects (North Star, Hiawatha extension. Met Council's sewer relining) all being constructed on a simultaneous schedule. The notion that a private entity (the Twins) could manage those relationships is not realistic.
The MBA is a public entity run by city, county and state appointed commissioners. It is well-suited to keeping the project on track and focused on protecting the public's investment long-term.
You can try to argue all you want about this. But the fact of the matter is the ballpark is being built, and some people are definitely watching out to make sure it is done right. I can't wait for 2010. I really can't wait.
Posted by snackeru at June 11, 2007 09:03 AM
Comments
We have a new “ism”
I don’t know what to call it yet, but it takes components of Social(ism), Commun(ism), and Marx(ism) and homogenizes them into a rationalized form of State owned and controlled amenities that attempt to satisfy the needs of the few at the “expense of the many.”
Capital(ism) has failed. Capitalism has proven to be ineffective towards filling and meeting the needs of the few. So much so, that now Governments only purpose is to solely tend to the needs of the few. It has now been determined that the principle backbone of democracy; where all issues are decided by the majority, has proven to be so oppressive that Government must now disenfranchise the majority in order to protect the interests and needs of the few. It is not enough that the majority, with all its economic ill-gotten gains, are now shamed into sharing their wealth at the risk of being ostracized, in order to improve the experience needs of the few, now under penalty of law, the Government must take the wealth of the majority and spend it on the needs of the few in order satisfy the collective guilt of the majority.
I propose that adopting this new “ism”, issue by issue, only prolongs the satisfaction we all will experience once this new “ism” is fully implemented and imposed. For that reason we must all now give up all we have, forego all we’ll earn and entrust all our resources to those that have demonstrated they’ve seen the light! The Four Horsemen of Hennepin County have nobly taken the first step towards opening our eyes to this new world, this new economy, this new era of complete contentment and satisfaction. But nay, yet one of the Four Horsemen have established himself as the leader and grand wizard of this new economy. For that reason alone, I am pronouncing this new economy, this hybrid, this amalgamation of the best of all “isms” to be Opatism!
Posted by: Opatfollower at June 11, 2007 10:21 AM
Shane, you feel this way because your altruistic goal of hosting GM as an online "town hall meeting" for the voicing of different opinions has had the unintended and unfortunate side effect of allowing the "town troll" to essentially defecate on the meeting table. If the "town troll" had to make these inane arguments to other GMers in person, he would have been shamed into submission by now. As it is, the degree of separation provided by an online forum has allowed him to prattle on unabated.
The only option we have then, is to collectively ignore the troll. Don't even waste time trying to come up with an insult for has babbling. If we are able to do that, then I think the positives of GM can return, and you might start to feel differently.
Posted by: The Tube at June 11, 2007 11:23 AM
I do think this time period is very interesting for ballpark fans. The ballpark is actually being designed -- meaning decisions are being made that we will have to live with for the next 50 years. There are negotiations for the land around the ballpark and how it will be developed. Infrastructure including light and communter rail is being planned, etc. The 5th Street Bridge hump issue will be big.
So yes, the ballpark is for real, but we still don't know how it will look and function within its urban context. Ballpark 2010.com is covering a lot of this stuff admirably but Shane you do have some good insider contacts who may be able to explain how and why some of these decisions are being made. For that reason alone I hope you still chime in on the ballpark from time to time. (Plus if it keeps you away from NBA commentary -- all the better!!)
Posted by: Freealonzo at June 11, 2007 12:13 PM
As a relatively newer GMer, I have to ask:
Why isn't Shane allowed to engage in NBA commentary?
Posted by: Snyder at June 11, 2007 12:43 PM
So.... um.... You want to start the BBB back up?
Posted by: Cheesehead Craig at June 11, 2007 12:49 PM
If the "town troll" had to make these inane arguments to other GMers in person, he would have been shamed into submission by now
Pick a park that's convenient for you to get to after your summer school session for dummies. I'm willing to allow you to try and "shame me."
Posted by: STM at June 11, 2007 01:12 PM
Snyder, if you go back through the Greet Machine archives it will be littered with bad NBA analysis by our favorite Twins Ballpark analyst. It's pretty ugly. One example: Shane was one of the few people who defended the Celtic-TWolves trade a few years back - a trade that had the dubious distinction of making both teams worse. There are many other examples too numerous to mention.
Posted by: Freealonzo at June 11, 2007 01:43 PM
Wait ... the T-Wolves and the NBA are still around? Well then, if that's the case you probably saw Bill Simmons's article lobbying for a KG-Amare Stoudamire trade, straight up. Good or bad? T-Wolves get younger, Suns get the potential missing piece, and KG possibly gets his championship.
Posted by: The Tube at June 11, 2007 02:02 PM
Thanks, Free! That should be fun to hunt for during the June swoon.
As for Tube's question, you cannot trade KG for Amare straight-up because the salaries don't match. If I was going to send KG to Phoenix, I'd probaby actually seek Shawn Marion and Raja Bell to get the correct salary match. If you insist on Amare, you'd probably be looking at something like Amare, Boris Diaw and Marcus Banks for KG.
Personally, I'd rather have Marion and if the Suns wouldn't include Bell, then I'd insist on one of their first-round picks this year so we could add another young player or better yet, pair it with our #7 and try to move up high enough to get Al Horford.
Posted by: Snyder at June 11, 2007 02:42 PM
OK - so I just tried another trade scenario and learned that KG for Shawn Marion and Boris Diaw would work, too.
I really hate the idea of trading KG, but that would get me contemplating it. I'd probably still have on insist on getting a first-rounder at some point to try and make up for the Celtics and Clippers debacles, though...
Posted by: Snyder at June 11, 2007 02:48 PM
OK - so I just tried another trade scenario and learned that KG for Shawn Marion and Boris Diaw would work, too.
I really hate the idea of trading KG, but that would get me contemplating it. I'd probably still have on insist on getting a first-rounder at some point to try and help make up for the Celtics and Clippers debacles, though...
Posted by: Snyder at June 11, 2007 02:49 PM
Here's the passage from the Simmons column
So here's my solution: If Phoenix gets bounced this week, don't they HAVE to trade Amare Stoudemire for KG?
Right now, Stoudemire is a base-year compensation player because he's finishing the first year of his contract extension (five years, $73 million). The deal I'm proposing can't work under the cap until mid-July, when Stoudemire's cap figure morphs into the value of his current contract ($13.2 million for next season) and makes him infinitely more easy to trade (for details, check out Larry Coon's NBA salary cap FAQ). But they could still agree on a pre-draft trade that wouldn't become official until a few weeks later.
So it would be Stoudamire and Banks for KG.
Posted by: The Tube at June 11, 2007 02:56 PM
Ooops -- that second paragraph should be italicized as well.
Posted by: The Tube at June 11, 2007 02:56 PM
Heh, "opatfollower's" rant reminded me of my own "Me First" platform rant:
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/snackeru/greet/2005/07/14/me_first.html
Ah, good times ...
And let me make it clear that STM is NOT the reason I am sick about talking about the stadium. I have seen many, many anti-stadium nutjobs come and go through this site over the years. One more doesn't make a bit of difference to me.
The reason I am sick of it is because I won and I don't want to talk about it anymore. That's it. Me no likey talkie stadium. No likey! At least right now. For example, if LPII tries to crush my butterfly again, then I will jump right back into the fray!
And yes, Cheesehead, let's start the BBB again. I am feeling particularly athletic right now, and it has nothing to do with the fact that you are injured (on your itty-bitty pinky-winky no less ... pathetic).
Freealonzo doesn't know good NBA analysis if it bit him in the ass. He is basing his negative commentary on my genius on one trade, which, by the way actually worked out better for the T-Wolves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Celtics are picking before the Wolves in the upcoming draft? Right? Therefore, the trade worked better for the Wolves. Case closed.
And your "too many examples" to mention comment is unfounded. Completely unfounded! I want another example!
And Snyder is right, any trade for KG has got to include a first rounder. If it doesn't, the best GM in basketball should turn it down. And yes, this is yet another nugget of NBA wisdom from yours truly! Try to refute it!
Back to work...
Posted by: Shane at June 11, 2007 03:09 PM
Very well Shane, we shall get organized for the BBB II. I shall forward you a list of proposed events and you may counter as you see fit.
Funny you mentioned my itty bitty pinky. You nearly fainted when you just saw the scab/scar. Wuss.
Shane's lucky if he knows what NBA stands for, let alone analyzing it.
Posted by: Cheesehead Craig at June 11, 2007 04:05 PM
We don't want KG in PHX. AND you don't want Diaw in Minneapolis. He's a stiff.
Posted by: kevin in az at June 11, 2007 07:19 PM
I see on Dave St. Peter's blog that the official groundbreaking is Aug 2. Bud Selig will be present for the first shovel of dirt. The same man that tried to help Smilin' Carl dig the Twins grave will be present for the first shovel for the new stadium.....Oh the irony!!!!
Again the man who deserves to be there for the groundbreaking and should really have the ballpark named after him is HARRY CRUMP!!! LONG LIVE JUDGE CRUMP!!!!
Posted by: kevin in az at June 11, 2007 10:19 PM
"You can try to argue all you want about this. But the fact of the matter is the ballpark is being built, and some people are definitely watching out to make sure it is done right."
I don't think it will make it.
Riders are emerging on the horizon with names like Collusion, Graft, & good old Bribery himself. They are roaring in leaving a visible trail of dust. A lot of officials are having trouble sleeping at night as they hear the thunder of the riders.
Posted by: jezebel at June 12, 2007 07:48 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Jezebel, you are a funny one! Good luck with that!
Posted by: Shane at June 12, 2007 09:10 AM
Shane: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Celtics are picking before the Wolves in the upcoming draft? Right? Therefore, the trade worked better for the Wolves. Case closed."
Freealonzo: Given the above quote, need I say more?
Posted by: freealonzo at June 12, 2007 09:11 AM
Shane, if you want some free advice (you get what you pay for), ignore the people who want to keep the argument going and just get back to having fun with your blog. The issue has been decided. Feel free to move on, even if other people don't want to.
At some point, continuing this debate is like debating the merits of the Kansas-Nebraska act. If that's what someone enjoys, fine, but realize that whatever conclusion you come to won't make any difference. It's history. It's over.
Just have fun, Shane. If you can't have fun with this thing, what's the point of it?
Posted by: Jeff A at June 12, 2007 09:36 AM
If you enjoy conjecture about what has been... i agree with Jeff A... but I know I sure don't (at least not this soon)
As for your "basketball analysis" i use that term politely... based on the example provided, a rockstar you aint.
IMO, Kevin McHale is in the bottom 5 worst GMs in sports (i think 3 are in the NBA)
McHale, Danny Ainge (celtics), Isaiah Thomas (Knicks), Matt Millen (lions), and Bill Bavasi (mariners)
As for Simmons proposed deal, I'd rather have Amare and #1 pick (that would could possibly bundle to move up and take Al Horford), than any of the others. Besides, If I'm PHX, I'd be hard pressed to move a guy like Diaw (a 6th man I really like) AND a front line star (like Marion) for KG.
That said, I think PHX has to drool at the possibility of Nash and KG on the floor together. The Suns could jack up all the perimeter shots they want, park KG under the rim in the low post, collect 20 boards a game, and score 20 on easy put backs. KG would thrive in a place where he didnt have to carry the team.
Posted by: CJ at June 12, 2007 10:24 AM
CJ,
you don't want diaw....he had a great 2005/06 when Amare was out with injury. Last year he was lost on the court all season. COMPLETELY LOST. He's like Daunte Culpepper (doesn't have it upstairs mentally) Diaw might make a good 6th man on some teams, but he's not even our 6th man...Barbosa is. I think the Suns would trade Diaw to the Wolves for a box of swedish sausage from Ingebretsons.
Suns will not swap Amare with Garnett in any trade regardless of draft picks. Amare is GOD in Phoenix. Nash may be the MVP of the Suns, but Amare is by far the face of the franchise.
Never in my dreams did I think I'd be chatting Suns basketball on a blog in MN.
Posted by: kevin in az at June 12, 2007 11:15 AM
I was hoping people here could help my cause.
Since you’ve demonstrated your effectiveness on the Twins stadium issue, you obviously have a knack for navigating the political and bureaucratic arenas for your benefit.
Valleyfair has been a Minnesota institution since 1976. Annually, almost 2,000,000 walk through the turnstiles. The problem I have is that Valleyfair doesn’t have the ability to compete with the likes of Six Flags. If they had another world class roller coaster or other distinguishing ride or two, we could become the Mecca of theme/amusement parks for the upper Midwest.
I need help working through the logistics of getting the locals is Scott County to embrace a small (2 cents on 20.00) sales tax increase to fund an expansion at Valleyfair that would make it a park all us Minnesotans could be proud of. Any ideas?
Posted by: rideguy at June 12, 2007 12:22 PM
I'm sure Shane will have some good ideas but I see some major impedements to your Valley Fair Improvement Plan:
1. Although smaller than 6 Flags, your facilities are: (a) relatively up-to-date; (b)able to generate adequate revenues for a major ride improvement every year or so; (c)a great place to go on a sunny 90 degree June day; and, (d)generally suited and configured for amusement ride enjoyment and not some other activity such as NASCAR or Bowling.
2. It appears that you don't have The Amusement Park Association of American threatening to shut you down if you don't improve your facilities or have other Cities without Amusement Parks offering you new facilities if you picked up and moved to their towns.
3. Although quite popular, it does not appear that Valley Fair is embraced by the community through newspaper coverage, tv reporters, blogs, web sites, etc. Besides a newspaper or TV story once or twice a year, Valley Fair doesn't seem to generate a whole lot of community interest.
I hope these impedements are not too onerous to overcome. If Valley Fair does convince the State Legislator to allow Scott County to impose this sales tax, I will surely contact my state represenative to vote in the positive.
Posted by: freealonzo at June 12, 2007 01:25 PM
We're not as "up to date" as we could be; While we can spend money on rides, we can't compete with the major parks (such as Six Flags) for the real premium rides; and, while we enjoy adequate facilities, the patron experience could stand to be greatly enhanced.
Actually, we have been wooed by other towns, but we like it here. We're a MN institution and if we can't compete we'll have to contract or, I mean close down.
On the contrary, I think community interest it quite high, but that's just me. While we don't warrant the media coverage of say, a steriods scandal or police blotter update, when we do make moves, it's generally reported on. But if media coverage is what determines whether or not a "handout" is warranted, in light of the fact we don't get as much as other entertainment options, we'll settle for say, 50 million dollars? yea, that should cover it.
Thanks for the advice.
Posted by: rideguy at June 12, 2007 02:12 PM
Food for thought. I was listening to the Dazzle Man this morning on 1500 am and the going premise with the 1500 am morning crew (Willie & Jay) is that the Twins need to make a move to bring in a hitter or be out-of-the division race before the All-Star break.
I hark back to last season when many of us where thinking the same thing...bring in a hitter or we're done and it will be a looooonnnnng summer and goodbye stadium.
Cold hard factoid: Per the STrib, at this point last year the Twins were 27-34 and 11 1/2 games out.
Thoughts on how this year may or may not be like last year? For starters...we don't have three good arms (Santana, Radke, Liriano) this time around.
Posted by: Brian Maas at June 12, 2007 03:25 PM
I think calling Radke a "good" arm is a bit of a stretch. He was 12-9 with a 4.32 ERA and a 1.41 WHIP. The important point that you make, however, is that there does not appear to be a galvanizing pitcher like Liriano waiting in the wings.
Also, last year's turn around was fueled in significant part by the team's decision to ditch Batista and Castro, and hand the reins over to Punto and Bartlett. That decision paid huge dividends. This year it does not appear that there are superior options to replace those pieces of the lineup that are struggling. Thus, a repeat of last year's incredible resurgence seems unlikely.
Posted by: The Tube at June 12, 2007 03:44 PM
On the positive side, the team does have a better record than at this point last year and has less ground they would need to make up.
One thing we need to keep in mind when comparing the starters is that we only had Liriano as a starter for about half a season and Radke also missed a chunk of time due to their respective injuries. Bonser may not be dominant, but he's been durable and his numbers so far are comparable to what Radke did last year. Silva has struggled to be consistent, but overall, he's done better than last year. If Bonser can learn to be a bit more efficient and go deeper into games and Slowey can remain an improvement on Ortiz, then I'm not too worried about the rotation.
But I think the concerns about the offense are legit. The team's offense so far this season behind the pace for last season's run totals and is well behind the pace for home run totals, which were already meager as it is.
I saw a rumor about a possible trade for Ty Wiggington from the D-Rays and I think the Twins should definitely pursue something like that. Scott Baker would be an improvement on 3/5 of their rotation and he should be pretty cheap to keep around for at least a couple more years.
Posted by: Snyder at June 12, 2007 04:06 PM
The Twins HAVE to play .600 ball here on out to finish with 90+ wins, I'd say; "Twins meet fork, you're done"
Posted by: pauly at June 12, 2007 06:03 PM
pauly, that means going 60-40 over their last 100. That is doable. What they need is a hot streak, like they had last june, or like they had in june of 91.
The difficulty comes from the Tribe and Tigers... both are having very good seasons.
By the way, does anyone else find the "world series rematch" week amusing? Twins and Braves, Yankees and Dbacks, Tribe and Marlins, Royals and Cards... Granted, it's not the whole league... but it is amusing to see. (I still dont love interleague)
Posted by: CJ at June 13, 2007 10:32 AM
They'll have to prove they can play .500 ball consistently before I believe they can play .600 ball the rest of the way out. Plus, they don't have the offensive horses or the pitching to pull off what they did last year.
Posted by: farley at June 13, 2007 01:03 PM
Didn't last year's team start out 25-33 and then go 71-33 to finish with 96 wins?
If they could do that, why is it so impossible to believe they could go 60-40 the rest of the way this season?
Posted by: Snyder at June 13, 2007 01:32 PM
i don't underestimate the career year had by punto, or the impact of liriano. but i personally think this team is equally capable of putting together an impressive run and again vying for the division.
Posted by: CJ at June 13, 2007 02:02 PM
We were 11 games back in the second week of August, and won the division. This AFTER Liriano was injured. So, it's all about getting hot...like we did winning 8 of 9 two weeks ago. We will be right there at the end. As awful as we have played, we are 5 games back in the loss column from both the Wild Card and the Division. Hardly an impossible task. That being said, still gotta put together a nice stretch at some point.
Anyone check out the article about the Saints and the Thunder stadiums potentially requiring public funds from the Pioneer Press? $25M is the figure that has been thrown out. STM? Fire away. I know this probably won't bother you as much, but I would like to hear your take.
Posted by: Derek at June 13, 2007 02:32 PM
There's a new concern reguarding transportation. This isn't something that I should waste time worrying about, is it?
http://www.twinsballpark2010.com/baseball/minnesota-twins/stadium/Home.html
Posted by: I Want Answer at June 13, 2007 04:13 PM
I actually totally oppose funding the Saints... we're a major league town. The Saints are a sideshow, a circus act. As for the Thunder, they should move back to Blaine, there's a 12,000 seat stadium out there ready for them.
If the Thunder were promoted to MLS... Then it'd be worth our efforts, at least somewhat.
Posted by: CJ at June 13, 2007 04:20 PM
I Want Answer might want to read the comments that followed the post he linked and then maybe he'd have the answer he seeks?
For the lazy, the answer is no, it's not anything to be overly concerned about.
Posted by: Snyder at June 13, 2007 05:00 PM
Now here's a cool story...
http://www.startribune.com/464/story/1243516.html
Posted by: Snyder at June 13, 2007 05:23 PM
Gee, I wonder what radio station will get the Twins broadcasts once the current contract expires?
Posted by: Pohlad Power at June 14, 2007 08:48 AM
Who cares about all this stuff? I want to read Shane's expert analysis of the Mike James trade.
Posted by: Jeff A at June 14, 2007 09:15 AM
I think the Saints should be allowed to play in the new Stadium. It'd save the State 25 million dollars, get more baseball and more people downtown. Allow people who can't afford to see a Twins game to experience baseball in a major league park.
What the heck? the thing is going to be vacant 284 days a year, surely they could figure something out? plus "we" own it, right? so I say "let the Saint play!" (in the new stadium).
Posted by: GoSaints! at June 14, 2007 09:34 AM
The Saints have no tickets for less than $7... same as the Twins, just an fyi.
As for the radio thing, somehow I doubt it like hell. The Twins make a TON on selling their broadcast rights to another company like Hubbard or CBS, they wouldn't throw that away. B96 is not a 50,000 watt clear channel booming over the region... it barely reaches elk river. AM is where baseball will stay. I just hope it goes back to CCO rather than remaining on KSTP...
Posted by: CJ at June 14, 2007 10:04 AM
Ahhhh, how many $7.00 Twins tickets will be available in 2010?
And the way radio works, Pohlad could syndicate the Twins broadcast with B96 being the "flagship" It'd be "left pocket/right pocket" to move the money for broadcasting to the Twins and he'd just pass the price along to whomever buys the package from B96. It's easy, and it'll happen. Just watch (or listen)
Posted by: GoSaints! at June 14, 2007 10:18 AM
I personally would have no problem with the Saints playing in the new Twins ballpark. I might even go watch them sometime when the Twins are on the road.
But if GoSaints! thinks there would be a chance in hell of this happening, I've got a bridge I could sell you. I can only imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would occur east of the River if the Saints were to betray their hometown. It would be like Norm Greed moving the North Stars to Dallas times ten.
Posted by: Snyder at June 14, 2007 10:55 AM
By the way CJ; the Saints have 3 buck GA ticks for games.
Posted by: CJ'swrong at June 14, 2007 12:07 PM
Yawn. Same sh*t, different day.
Can we please have a 1 week moratorium on this bickering and stadium arguing junk? It's beyond old.
Shane, make the decree and put a timer up on the site as well.
Posted by: Cheesehead Craig at June 14, 2007 03:36 PM
Crack you pocket books Minneapolis and Hennepin County residents! The table has been set; now it's time to let the BIG DOGS EAT!
http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1247372.html
Posted by: Purpleheadedwarrior at June 15, 2007 07:42 AM
What's interesting about the Vikes buying those 4 parcels is that they are getting them for an average of $11.25 million per block. Now I know it's not a perfect apples to apples comparison but that price should tell us that the Twins ballpark parcels are probably worth closer to the $13.5 million figure and not the $35-$40 million speculated by some.
But as Shane is probably thinking, Who Cares? The ballpark is being built. A price will be determined, the County/Twins will pay it and we'll be watching outdoor baseball in less than three years.
Posted by: Freealonzo at June 15, 2007 08:16 AM
How do you figure? the 4 parcels are almost equal in area to the 8 acres condemned for the Twins. How is the Twins site worth 1/3rd the value?
Posted by: newmath at June 15, 2007 08:39 AM
That's the worst thing that could happen for the condemnation proceedings, if your rooting against the stadium. The Vikes deal (for mostly surface parking area, by the way), pegs the real estate value at about $5.4M per acre (ouch!), or roughly $43,200,000 for the Twins piece.
Posted by: dp at June 15, 2007 10:21 AM
Those greedy land developers! they should've grabbed the 13.5 million when they had the chance!
I hope they make Oputz pay the difference.
Posted by: BL at June 15, 2007 10:33 AM
I don't see the Twins moving radio stations as long as they can get KSTP to renew this crazy deal. The Twins broadcast the games themselves, reaping 100% of advertising revenue from pregame through to postgame, AND KSTP pays them over $1M per year. There is no better deal they could possibly get from anyone right now. The only reason to move the games to a station they own would be to increase listeners for the non-Twins programming, which is risky. By moving to a Twins-owned station, they immediately lose $1M in revenue.
According to their website, Saints adult ticket prices range from $4 to $10. And, it's worth EVERY penny to me.
I like the Wolves trade. Get rid of a long contract, and Justin Reed, and get back a two-year contract with a guy that can help in the middle. Sure, he's past his prime, but he can still play well. I am still waiting to find out that McHale included our 2015 and 2016 first-round picks in the deal.
Posted by: Derek at June 15, 2007 11:45 AM
The sale of the land to the Vikings is probably a net push to the stadium land condemnation proceedings, but if anything, I think it helps give the county some certainty.
A quick look at Google maps seems to indicate the parcel for the Twins stadium is slightly larger than half the land Wilf bought. However, in present use, the stadium land less attractive (for example, it cost less to park on the stadium land than it does by the Metrodome).
I'm gonna say the stadium land is valued at $20M when the condemnation proceedings are finished.
Any other guesses?
Posted by: tato at June 15, 2007 01:51 PM
The Vikes haven't even come close to a viable stadium proposition yet. Until they at least bring something resembling a decent deal to the table, the "big dogs" can keep keep tripping and falling all over themselves like the newborn puppies that they are.
Posted by: Cheesehead Craig at June 15, 2007 02:18 PM
I don't want to take anything away from the scientific method aka Google Earth parcel comparison, but I think a city block (exclusive of roads) is about 300 x 300, or slightly more than 2 acres. If Zygi bought 4 of these, that totals a little over 8 acres. Isn't that the approximate size of the rapid park site?
I think just "eyeballing" the sites online distorts the actual area because you see roads and other easements that aren't part of the parcel and you don't see the land under bridges on the RP site. I'll guess that the Twins land will ultimately be valued at closer to 40 million than 20 million.
Oh, and anybody named "Cheesehead" can't comment on any Vikes plans!
Posted by: mike at June 15, 2007 09:31 PM
^yup, you're right. Twins Ballpark 2010 describes the site as 2 city blocks, but then gives the dimensions as 729 x 524, which would actually make it slightly LARGER than the land bought by Zygi.
However, the perceived quality of the land seems like a pretty big difference maker in the value. I'll bump up my guess to $25-$30 Million.
Get out the checkbook Carl!
Posted by: tato at June 16, 2007 10:31 AM
Lew Ford is killing me.
Jeff T.
Posted by: Jeff T. at June 17, 2007 05:22 PM
Regarding the Vikings land deal affecting the Twins stadium, weren't they supposed to rule on the value relatively soon? If so, they should hardly be allowed to take a speculative value of a deal that isn't done yet into consideration.
As for the Twins, they need to package Baker and Rincon for the best bat they can get. Finally, for the T-wolves, please draft anyone except Joakhim Noah...
Posted by: David H. at June 18, 2007 04:07 AM
First hearing on the Twinks land deal is the 26th? of June or thereabouts.
The sellers attorneys will find some way of working that transaction into the process, especially if it helps their cause and closes within 3 month either side of this deal.
Posted by: Darren at June 18, 2007 07:48 AM
interesting
Posted by: chungsiew at June 18, 2007 08:38 AM
Hope you had a wonderful Father's Day, Shane.
Posted by: Jeff A at June 18, 2007 08:44 AM
I am going to say the value is $39M. It will be interesting to find out what the Twins agreed to pay. They apparently put a cap on their added contribution, so if the valuation comes back at an even higher number than the Twins cap, maybe there are more fireworks in our future. Granted, that would probably get figured out too, with the construction having already been started.
Posted by: Derek at June 19, 2007 09:26 AM
The Twins now have to play almost .640 ball the rest of the way to get to 94 wins, and don't say "what about last year?" the only thing MORE remarkable than last year, would be doing it two years in a row.........how 'bout those Vikes?
Posted by: mike at June 19, 2007 02:14 PM
I think a $39-40 million valuation is too high.
My admittedly-not-well-thought-out logic is this:
1)Land in a relatively undeveloped part of downtown next to the incinerator gets a substantial haircut (>10%).
2)Zygi's new land has twice the street frontage on FAR busier streets. I gotta think this counts for a lot of value as far as development and potential tenants go (20%? 30%?).
I agree that this probably has no impact on the stadium (the economics would probably have to swing a total of $100 million before this stops being a sweet deal for the Twins), but I think it will be VERY interesting to see the outcome of last winter's he-said, she-said BS.
Posted by: tato at June 19, 2007 03:00 PM
Anyone see Miller Park imitating a broken faucet last night? Maybe we Gopher, Husky, Fighting Sioux, and Bulldog fans can taunt B. Elliot's replacement with the name Miller Park (leaks like a sieve).
Anyway, another reason why a roof is a bad idea at Best Buy Field at Medtronic Park.
Posted by: Freealonzo at June 19, 2007 03:22 PM
Land in a relatively undeveloped part of downtown
I'LL SAY! I HAD TO HEAD DOWNTOWN TO WHAT USED TO BE THE PILLSBURY BUILDING YESTERDAY AFTERNOON; WHAT A FRICKEN CRAP HEAP! I TOOK 394 IN FROM THE WESTERN SUBURBS PAYING SPECIAL ATTENTION TO ALL THE SURROUNDINGS ON MY WAY IN (I GET DOWNTOWN ABOUT ONCE EVERY 3 OR 4 YEARS).
GARBAGE BURNER IN FULL VIEW AND WHAT ALREADY IS LITTERED WITH PARKING GARAGES AND OVERPASSES IS GOING TO BE FURTHER BASTARDIZED BY A PLAZA? ONCE YOU COME UP FROM THE CESSPOOL AND DUMP ON 2ND AVENUE THERE'S NOTHING BUT A CRAP PILE OF DILAPIDATED AND MOSTLY EMPTY BUILDINGS (ANYBODY REMEMBER 'URBAN WILDLIFE'?) I FELT UNSAFE IN BROAD DAYLIGHT.
IF THAT AREA IS "REVITALIZED" 10 YEARS FROM NOW, TO WHERE A SUBURBANITE LIKE MYSELF MIGHT ACTUALLY BE DRAWN DOWNTOWN....I'LL EAT MY TWINS CAP! THANK GOD I LIVE IN THE BURBS AND OWN A T.V. AND GET CABLE FOR MY TWINS FIX, SO I WON'T HAVE TO TAKE MY LIFE IN MY OWN HANDS AND RISK GOING DOWN THERE.
BUFFALO WILD WINGS AND A BIG SCREEN IS ALL I NEED. WHAT A JOKE. COMING IN FROM 394 WILL BE WRECKED FOR LIFE.
Posted by: dp at June 19, 2007 03:53 PM
"I FELT UNSAFE IN BROAD DAYLIGHT."
...scared of the big bad city, eh?
"THANK GOD I LIVE IN THE BURBS AND OWN A T.V. AND GET CABLE FOR MY TWINS FIX"
...believe me, we thank God for that as well.
By the way, I suggest you talk to your Dr. about a hearing aid.
...Just some friendly advice.
Posted by: tato at June 19, 2007 04:02 PM
I'm not sure that'll ever be the area you want to be the "last one to leave" from. basically everything south of Plymouth Avenue and North of 394 say 5 or 6 blocks either side of 94 is pretty scary.
Posted by: mike at June 19, 2007 04:05 PM
The funny thing is that mike and dp's parents (or friend's parents) are moving into these neighborhoods in droves. One of the driving forces behind the "condo boom" was empty nesters moving back to the City into the many condos built within a mile of the ballpark site.
Maybe mike and dp are worried their parents will seem them out after dark and scold them.
Posted by: Freealonzo at June 20, 2007 08:13 AM
