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August 18, 2007
Stadium blue prints
Greetings reader! As promised, here are some blue prints I received from a subcontractor working on the stadium (thanks anonymous subcontractor!). In all, I received over 400 pages of blue prints. Most are views of different parts of the stadium in excruciating detail, and quite frankly most I can't really make sense of. Pilings and beams and cement, etc. etc. I have found that not only am I not a rocket scientist, I am also lacking knowledge in the area of stadium architecture. But there are some interesting prints, to be sure, that I cropped out for you. Here are about 30 prints.
Warning! The first two links below are pretty large PDF files of about 6MB a piece. You may have to wait awhile before they finish downloading.
7-12-07 Plans (PDF)
8-8-07 Plans (PDF)
8-8-07 Page 61 -- The mysterious oval (PDF)
As I looked through these files a few interesting details popped out at me:
- As you can tell, the first two links present overhead views of the stadium from blue prints created on different dates: July 12 and August 8. See if you can make out any big differences. I sure can't.
- Lots of pilings to be put in the ground. Lots. If I worked in that area I would be bringing some ear plugs to work for a while. Wow.
- A big concern of some stadium nutjobs like me has been the availability of affordable seating. Namely seating in the outfield. These designs certainly show a smattering of seating in the outfield. Will it be enough?
- It appears that some seating will be above the batter's eye.
- Both designs show that the scoreboard will be located above left-center field.
- There seems to be a gap in the seating in right field. Will this be the location of the stadium restaurant?
- And finally, the mysterious oval. Both designs show a large oval structure located behind left field and the third baseline. What the heck is this thing? The PDF "Page 61" is a close-up of the oval. Will it be a Twins ProShop? Another restaurant? A huge vortex that sucks the money right out of your wallet and throws it into Carl Pohlad's on site vault? What is it? Any ideas? Maybe I've missed something.
That is what immediately came to my attention. If you see anything else of interest let me (us) know. And as I said above, this is but the tip of the iceberg in terms of how many blue prints I actually received. If you want to see more (Rick of Twinsballpark2010?) just let me know. I'm sure someone could make more sense out of these things.
Now, depending on the results of the non-binding arbitration concerning the value of the stadium land, the stadium might actually look like this. I guess we'll find out on Monday. So far we've heard values of $37 million, $57 million, and Dave H. submitted a value of $21 million (thanks for the laugh Dave!). We'll have to wait until Monday. However, if it turns out to be $57 million ... wow. Pohlad will have to pony up, so it isn't all bad, but it certainly would affect the infrastructure. We'll just have to wait and see.
Posted by snackeru at August 18, 2007 5:04 PM
Comments
Looks to me like the oval structure connects to the tail end of the Northstar commuter rail platform below. I know they've been considering using the stadium on non-event days as part of the station infrastructure. I'd imagine there will be other means of egress from the station as well, but that seems to be the main thing.
Now, I don't know why they chose an oval for it, but that's what it seems to be to me. The tracks would be directly below it, and the lowest level of the blueprints (seen on page 1 and 2 of the 8-8-07cr pdf) seems to have part of a train platform, as well as some rectangles cut out for stairs/escalators.
Posted by: Alex B at August 18, 2007 5:55 PM
Good guess, Alex. In the 7-12 plan, the oval starts showing up in the Main Concourse print. It does not show up on the Service level or the Mezzanine level. I would expect the light rail to come in at a lower level, like at the MOA, but maybe that won't be possible.
Posted by: Shane at August 18, 2007 6:02 PM
I can confirm that the oval is the interface between the Northstar platform and the ballpark.
And yes, Shane, I'm positively drooling right now, so I'd love to mine whatever info I can get my mouse on...
Posted by: Rick at August 18, 2007 8:18 PM
Christ.
Looks like something that will need to be torn down in 5 years.
What a swatch of junk this thing is turning out to be.
Posted by: baseball pro at August 18, 2007 9:57 PM
Well shoot Rick. A money stealing vortex would have been more exciting than a connection to the Northstar platform. Oh well.
I'll email you about getting the rest of the prints. I look forward to reading whatever sense you can make of them.
Posted by: Shane at August 18, 2007 9:57 PM
I thought the oval thingy was always intended as some sort of connection to the rail. Where have you heard values of 37-57 million? Still getting ranting emails from Rich and the gang at LPII or something? Those pie-in-the-sky amounts are more laughable than 21 mil., frankly.
Posted by: mullen at August 18, 2007 11:21 PM
Charley Walters 'wouldn't be surprised' if it's $29 million. Then again his source is probably as credible as mine. :-)
Posted by: David H. at August 19, 2007 9:31 AM
Shane, the LRT will be running at street level on 5th St. The Northstar train platform will be one level below, on what's going to be the field level, where the rail tracks currently are. To transfer from one to the other, you'll need some sort of vertical circulation, which is where the Oval comes in.
Now, in the future, when the SW corridor is under development for mass transit, that line may come in under the stadium to the rail station, but it's just as likely to come in from the other direction along 5th, connecting to the new tracks that will extend the Hiawatha line to the ballpark.
I'll be curious to see how they plan on dealing with that connection on both gamedays and non-gamedays.
Posted by: Alex B at August 19, 2007 5:37 PM
Looks like money would have been better spent on a friggin BRIDGE.
Posted by: meto at August 19, 2007 9:29 PM
meto...the only tragedy is that you weren't on that bridge...shut the F#&K up already
Posted by: kevin in az at August 19, 2007 11:00 PM
Now, kevin ... I sincerely hope you don't mean that. I'll chalk that comment up to just having a bad day.
Meto, what other ideas do you have to pay for our needed infrastructure improvements? Surely you know that the money going to the stadium would be inadequate. So what else? Slash the LRT? Raise the gas tax? Cut LGA some more? Because if your ideas are limited to just harassing a pro-stadium blog then you aren't thinking hard enough.
Posted by: Shane at August 20, 2007 8:38 AM
Just wondering; but will any of your opinions of Oputz change if the stadium land value comes in twice as much as he (HC) offered? how about 3 times as much? 4?
Is there anything that would take the shine off the apple that "he" is, in your eye?
Posted by: curious at August 20, 2007 9:08 AM
Why did you put "he" in quotations?
Mr. Opat has successfully gotten the Twins to agree to pick up the cost of anything over HC's budget (within reason). I suppose the only way Opat will feel some heat is if the judgment comes back at something over $40 million. We all know that the Twins will only feel generous to a point. I am guessing that point will be exceeded after $40 mil.
And if the judgment comes back closer to $20 million, will you feel any better about the savior of baseball in Minnesota? Probably not.
Posted by: Shane at August 20, 2007 9:18 AM
"he" because he's a "putz"
And I would feel better about his abilty to perform as represented.
Where did you read that the Twins will pick up anything? I thought I read that ANY commitment on the Twins part was merely an understanding that the county would need help and an agreement to discuss if necessary? nothing more.
Posted by: curious at August 20, 2007 9:30 AM
Here is what Mike said in a letter printed here a few weeks ago:
"Earlier this year, when it became clear that we were not going to be able to strike a deal to buy the land, the County Board voted to pursue condemnation. It is unfortunate that we arrived at such a place, knowing that attorneys fees are expensive and the deal would not be done for some time. Condemnation was a hard sell for me. I had worked hard to buy the site through negotiating, and I didn't want to expose the public to the risk that condemnation could return a wild judgment -- as has happened in the past. That does not mean I lost confidence in our appraisals. I simply wanted to make sure that we could build a great ballpark with great infrastructure -- within the $90 million cap -- even with the huge variable that condemnation brings. I approached the Twins and they agreed to fund an additional amount to the infrastructure budget.
It is not an unlimited amount. The team will not cover "any" difference between our appraisals and the condemnation judgment. The only reason we have not specified what the Twins' contribution will be is because we do not want to divulge that kind of budget information to the other side while we are in court with them."
Posted by: Shane at August 20, 2007 9:33 AM
Nice. Although I think giving them credit for around a $30 mill additional contribution is a little rich.
You didn't answer my question. Will you feel differently about Oputz if it turns out he way oversold his ability to the tune of a multiple of 3 or 4?
Posted by: curious at August 20, 2007 9:40 AM
I am of the opinion that the Twins will feel some pressure if the award comes in really high. Opat and HC are limited to $90 million on infrastructure. That may be a good thing because it will force the Twins to pony up some more. If the award comes in at something drastically higher than what any of us would think is reasonable, the Twins will have a choice. They can either pony up a substantial amount, or they can look like cheap bastards. I have a feeling they will pay. They have waited too long, and they've gotten way too much public funding, not to build the best ballpark possible.
Naive? Yeah, probably. But to answer your question, I will be more angry with the Twins than Opat if they don't build the best ballpark possible. Opat has already done the impossible. The Twins need to pony up.
Posted by: Shane at August 20, 2007 9:53 AM
Shane....Any inside track on the dollar amount for the land?
Posted by: MOJO at August 20, 2007 9:57 AM
Nope. Quite frankly, I'm a little frightened by it all so I haven't asked. At this point I'm sure my contacts would tell me just to wait. Ah what the heck, I'll ask anyway.
Posted by: Shane at August 20, 2007 9:59 AM
you're the best!
Posted by: MOJO at August 20, 2007 10:19 AM
Hey Curious check out Patrick Reusse's column today in the Strib. I am quoting Jim Pohlad:
"We already know that we're gong to spend more that the original figure ($130 million) for the ballpark. We don't know the land price."
Also although Opat isn't perfect he will always have a soft spot in my heart because he came up with the financing plan that got the ballpark approved. Up until that time there was a lot of gnashing of teeth and go nowhere debate over finance plans for the ballpark. Regardless of the outcome of the land price, Opat deserves credit for that.
Posted by: Freealonzo at August 20, 2007 10:21 AM
The number is 23.8M. Big deal.
Posted by: Curious at August 20, 2007 10:30 AM
I still think it stands to notice that Oputz was off by over 57% of his offered price. And I don't think it's because he's so interested in the best interests of us HC residents. It's because he's a sneaky, coniving politician who tried to screw people.
Posted by: curious at August 20, 2007 10:33 AM
An empty parking lot next to the railroad tracks?? Give me a break! $13 M was too much to offer.
Posted by: Dave T at August 20, 2007 11:01 AM
Is it just me, or is there less and less outfield seating as these plans develop? That's rather disappointing.
I think that open area in RF is not for a restaurant, but rather an open platform near the LRT connection, correct? I would much rather they put more seating there instead, especially if they are reducing the number of seats in LF.
Posted by: spycake at August 20, 2007 3:38 PM
spycake, I think they've been adding more and more outfield seating in each progressive iteration of the design.
There was never much OF seating in RF to begin with, as the RF area opens up to the plaza and bridge over 394. The area in Right Center seems to be getting bigger. The angle of the seating tells us that it will end up flush against the B garage.
In Left, the blueprints show that they'll still have the double decked grandstand. If anything, they've removed the restaurant from over the bullpen in favor of more seating, that will be located right below the scoreboard.
Posted by: Alex B at August 20, 2007 11:41 PM
Alex B., I just wanted to say thanks for your insights into all of this. You definitely have an eye for the details of these blue prints that I completely missed. So thanks!
Posted by: Shane at August 21, 2007 8:40 PM
No problem Shane. Thanks for providing a forum to discuss it!
Posted by: Alex B at August 21, 2007 9:11 PM
