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I dont know why, but it has never occured to me that multiculturalism and feminism have been popularly perceived as contradictory to each other. That is, it has never CONSCIOUSLY occured to me. It is almost funny that I was the one bringing up the fact that I had to confront my racism and classism, and yet thinking back on it, it mostly dictated how I related to and thought of MEN of color as opposed to people of color. Thinking back on our discussion of why the two concepts have not been reconciled, now it is beginning to make sense to me -at least part of it (this is sliiiiiightly related to the whole minstrelsy thing). People in American culture of lesser status have historically claimed legitimacy by contrasting themselves to people in a similar, yet subordinate social station. For example, I mentioned that immigrants donned blackface and performed in minstrel shows to emphasize their difference from African Americans; African American Men put down African American Women in order to claim manhood and thus humanity; It seems natural that Feminism would unconsciously elevate itself on the backs of immigrant women, women of color and third world women to emphasize their humanity. And just as the other practices are still somewhat present, so is this.

The statement that we have assumed that multiculturalism and feminism are both good is an important one. It seems to be a good strategy in deconstruction to start with your basic or initial assumptions. I think that this essay is interesting in itself, but would most likely be even more-so had I read the writings by Okin about multiculturalism vs. feminism. The basic assumption that 'minority' populations are based on partiarchial societies is important to explore: is this true, and when it isn't, does this dichotomy still exhist (between feminism and multiculturalism)? His point that sexual violence in the U.S. is seen as rare, whereas that in immigrant communities is seen as the norm is especially important, and something that I've never thought about (especially this "death by culure (1188)). It seems especially important to remember that cultures outside the 'West' are ever-changing and incorporating feminism (an idea directly disproving the idea of feminism vs. multiculturalism), and also that the 'West' still supports male-dominant values. Another interesting point is the use of the status of women in a culture to measure the progress of the culture, another phenomenon that I was unaware of. Also, pitting race and gender against each other seems equally problematic, as Vlopp says, "vectors of identity cannot be analyzed as isolated phenomenon" (1202). Especially pertinent seems to be the four-point issue of specifically identifying "other" women, who seem to be the most abused in this feminism/multiculturalism dichotomy.

Personally, I think that this was the most interesting article, thus far, mostly because it is less theory and it held my attention. I felt that Volpp brought up a lot of issues brought up in the articles that we gave already read and discussed. Her discussion of the placement of feminism versus multiculturalism is the same binary construction of the West and the Orient, us versus them. Previously, I had not known there would even have been a problem with multiculturalism and feminisim. To me, two good things, people fighting for change, should not have to work separtely. I also liked her description of how easy it is for outsiders to place cultural significance on certain items/actions that the culture itself would not identify themselves with. In that same line the sentence that described the failure to see the behavior of whites as cultural, leads to her discussion of how binary constructions place emphasis and superiority on the first, and subordination on the second. I think a change in our views of binary constructions could change problems in many areas of scoiety.

I guess the title says it all. Feminism vs. Multiculturalism. Its crazy to think that American's think there is a huge difference between killing a woman with a gun and killing a women in connection with dowry demands. I didnt realize that this was something that was still practiced, and I found it even more interesting that Volpp compared Dowry murders as equivalent to Western divorce.
On this same subject of the Dowry murders, philosophher Uma Narayan calculated that "Death by domestic violence in the US in numericaly as significant a social problem as Dowry murder in India." I would have never thought to even compare those two, and when you think about it, you realize that they are being compared and put into the same category as one another; which they should be.
Another thing stated in this article was, " Feminism is presumed not to value the rights of minority cultures; multiculturism is presumed not to value the rights of women." I guess I can see both arguements to this statement. I dont find this to be true in all cases though. I think that when you look at extremist views, yes, multiculturism doesn't give women many rights, but this doesn't seem to be for all cases.

I loved reading Volpp’s article, I agree with Kiley’s comment that it held her attention better. I think part of the reason was because she brought up issues that were so easy to translate into my own life and were written in a way that was easy to grasp. I felt that her criticism of people in the United States that see acts of violence against women in the Third World to be culturally based while acts of violence against women in the U.S. are not cultural was very powerful. I also found the argument she put forth about other issues besides cultural tradition that surround much of the violence that takes place against women, issues such as politics and the economy. My favorite part of the article was near the end, on page 37, when she brought up the possibility that blaming the subordination of Third World women on their cultures brings up the possible defense of not changing laws concerning women’s rights because of the necessity to adhere to the culture.

Reading Volpp was fun and entertaining. Like almost everyone have been posting about, this article is sure about Feminism versus Multiculism. Even Volpp,herself is questioning whether if feminism and multiculism are two differemt issues. I liked the points where she talk about asking around for the answer about if it is ok for a man to beat his wife. How one group answer yes it is ok for man to beat his wife, and the other saying no, it is not ok to man to beat his wife cause there are universal feminism principles that would not allow for a man to beat up his wife(pg. 1184). I found this to be interesting because that different in answer is what tell us that feminism is different from multiculism. Before, female was give right and sex discrimation was stop, female was beaten by thier men because of cultural right and a man right as her husband. But now that there are rights that protect women from the beating, where men can be arrested for beating women too. And I think that this is where multiculism come in between feminism and maybe musculine. In Volpp's article, when she bring up whether multculism is bad for women, and Okin's ideas of feminism as the brief that women shouldn't be disavataged by thier sex, and they should be given equal right as men. Also Okin defining multiculism as that minority cultures or ways od life are sufficient protected by giving right to member....right and privileges(pg.1182). I agree with Okin. Thoughout the reading, a lot issues was mentions which made me realize that as an asian women who was given any form of the americain right, I also want that right of equality to a man. Because I don't like the ideas that women should be put down or beat down by a man just because he want to show that he should be the powerful one in the family or society. I think that we are all human being, we should all have the equality to things, and there shouldn't be fighting for who will be more dominant in this world whether it concern politiction, family, class, and race.

I definitely agree with everyone that this article was much easier to read although it was very dense. One thing that struck me was her point about how sexual violence in the third world seen as cultural while failing to recognize the cultural aspects of sexual violence affecting mainstream white women. Many times I don't even realize how much emphasis we put on culture without realizing it. For instance if a Korean man beat up his wife we assume it's how Korean men or culture is. They just beat up their wives. Volpp makes a good point in her conclusion. " By careful examination of women's relationships to specific patriarchies....to change behavior must be premised on the understanding that cultures, including our own are partriarchal-not more or less so, but differently patriarchal." I think it is very true because realizing it will create a starting point to how we can go about tackling issues of oppression and to see "womens rights as human rights."

Dominate culture vs. minority culture
Multiculturalism vs. feminism
Western culture vs. non-western culture

We have a trio team. Mills Charles/ Said Edward/ Volpp Leti
Our trio team bases their arguments on each other.
Reading this article was really interesting to me because I could apply the concepts of the previous two scholars to here too. Well it’s again the concept of dominant culture vs. minority culture. It’s interesting how things are laid out when it’s issues that are common in the dominant culture. The example of the domestic violence is so eye opening, how this issue is not culturally based and the dowry death is based on the shoulder of culture problems. It’s interesting how some things (issues) that are common in the “Orient” and “Third World” are culturally based. The most interesting part is also how people from the dominate culture relate the issues to culture roots rather then finding good “justification”, the way they justify with issues that come up in the dominant culture. We see here how minority culture get devalued and put down. This article tie so good with the article from Mills so good. I think Eileen did the order with purpose, so that we can go every time ahhhhhhhh, and ohhhhhh.

I definitely agree with everyone that this article was much easier to read although it was very dense. One thing that struck me was her point about how sexual violence in the third world seen as cultural while failing to recognize the cultural aspects of sexual violence affecting mainstream white women. Many times I don't even realize how much emphasis we put on culture without realizing it. For instance if a Korean man beat up his wife we assume it's how Korean men or culture is. They just beat up their wives. Volpp makes a good point in her conclusion. " By careful examination of women's relationships to specific patriarchies....to change behavior must be premised on the understanding that cultures, including our own are partriarchal-not more or less so, but differently patriarchal." I think it is very true because realizing it will create a starting point to how we can go about tackling issues of oppression and to see "womens rights as human rights."

Someone likes their footnotes…Volpp’s critique of binary thinking in white feminism reminds me of Said’s Orientalism, using cultural determinism to define itself in contrasts: ‘us-the liberated’ and ‘them-oppressed by culture’. So citing rigid, non-negotiable culture as the source of oppression for women of color situates white assimilation/acculturation as the goal. This replicates an imposition of colonial standards and obscures the complexities of patriarchy. I think Volpp most effectively illustrates these complexities by commenting on the “difficulties posed by such a use of the category ‘woman’” because it validates the multiplicity of womens’ experiences and illuminates how race, class, and colonialism act in many different ways to perpetuate hierarchy.

Wow...i found this article the easiest to read and most interesting since it talks about feminism and multicultural. I never realize that the two of them can get tangle up together and how it can create such a misunderstanding between the Eastern countries and Westeren countries. What has brought my attention the most was the idea that women should be understood more than just victims of their own culture. Why i agree on this statement is because while we still need to respect the many different cultures that exist in this world, we still need to explore with what is actually right and wrong and to never overlook past it or it will just be like an excuse to not study the problem and fix it because it relates to cultural issues. This is a very important concept to discuss about and i am glad we all had a chance to read it.

I really enjoyed Volpp's discussion on feminism and multiculuralism. Volpp's stance that seperating the two will only create binary discourses is right on. When asked to remname her her discussion on Feminism vs. Multiculturalism to "Is it OK to Beat my Wife?" demonstrates the way in which seperating them would only create a major binary within the discourse rather than getting at the heart of the problem that it is NEVER ok to beat your wife no matter what culture you are from.
To reiterate the fact that whiteness is never associated as a "culture" Volpp states that, "Incidents of sexual violence in the West are thought to reflect the behavior of a few deviants RATHER than as part of our culture....In Third World or immigrant communities it is thought to characterize the cultures of entire nations" (1187). How true is that? It is never ever ever ever a cultual problem when we read in the paper about a female getting beated to death by her white husband. It is just something that happened. "Culture is NOT invoked to explain forms of violence against mainstream Western woman but is when against Thirld World or immigrant woman" (1188). What about the US being the only nation where woman are dying of both Bulemia and Anorexia? Is that not violence towards the representations with what a woman should look like in the US? It is never discussed but more hush hushed. I hate it. I absolutley hate it. That is what is wrong with the media. It is very very distorted and that is why we ALL have to be careful with where we get our information from. We ALL need to find those feminists writers that will tell us the truth.

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