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March 31, 2008

Sisterhood, Loyalty, White Cop

In both Thelma and Louise and Set It off, sisterhood and loyalty are established through surviving hard times together. Thelma and Louise fight to break free from an unhappy marriage and fight to get through the attempted rape. The women of Set It Off make it through Frankie's robbery accusation and financial downfall, Stevie's death, and Tisean's battle with child services. Thelma, Louise, Frankie, Cleo, Tisean, and Stoney all set out on an adventure in search of a better life.

The white cop functions as a "good cop" in both films. In Thelma and Louise, the while cop tried to save Thelma and Louise and get them out of trouble. In Set It Off, the white cop pursues the women, but he also tries to stop them from harming themselves and tries to help them find a way out. He lets Stoney go at the end of the film, knowing that she is on the bus. I think he felt guilty that her friends had all been killed and felt he owed it to her to let her free.

Comparing "Set it Off" to "Thelma and Louise"

I had big issues getting to this blog! Sorry for the delay!

The first answer I`ll be answering is: " How is outlaw status justified?".
Though the two movies we are comparing are pretty different from each other, the other similarities found are quite strong. In Thelma and Louise, it all started when Thelma saved Louise from a nightmare by ending the life of her rapist. The two women are bonding better than ever..in a way looking for each other, because at that point, all they had was each other. In Set it Off, becoming an outlaw was pretty much the only possibility avaible since they`ve all been screwed in a way by their employers, the government... Like Frankie (played by Vivica A. Fox) said at some point to justify their actions: " We`re just taking it away from the system that`s fucking us up anyway".
At last: " How are the landscapes different?"
"Set it off" was more based in an urban area. A lively city where people knew very well who lived in their neigborhood. Staying in the same familiar area even after committing a crime, gave the police an easy opportunity to track them down. Which was harder for the cops to get Thelma and Louise because they kept moving from the night of the murder. The fact that their journey was mostly in a desert area, gave them a better chance not to get caught (less people means less witnesses)

Thelma and Louise vs. Set it off

First of all, i am sorry that i couldn't post the blog on time. i had issues with opening the website.somehow, it couldnt' open up in my lap top.

Ways that Thelma and Louise and Set it off is different is how the foundation of these two films are set up.

In Thelma and Louise, we don't really know how strong their friendships are and what kind of friendships that they actually have. In the film, we do know from a scene that Louise has kind of like the bad influence on Thelma and Thelma's husband discourages her to hang out with Louise. Later, on we know the strength of their friendships. But, we never actually know what kind of friendship it is. Because of the last kiss that they actually have when they die or jump off the cliff. So, we don't clearly know whether their love is just friendship and caring kind of love or is it just more than that? So, we always kind of get that notiion of the lesbian relationship or bond they have.

Set it off, we clearly could see that all these african american women are just friends. they care about each other a lot. Especially Jade Pink Smith and Queen Latifa are like this childhood friends. We never get that notion of lesbian relationship amongst them. Even though, Queen Latifa is a lesbian in that movie. But, she has this partner, this other african american woman who gets introduced as her girlfriend.

Sisterhood's Often Carry Similarities

“How are sisterhood and loyalty established?�

In comparing the two films it’s obvious that both sisterhood and loyalty are one of the central themes in each movie, however the time in which these themes are most central in the film is slightly different.

In “Set It Off� it is made extremely clear in the beginning of the film that these women are bonded by sisterhood. It is something that has been developing for years through what the four women have shared in their lives thus far. They have grown together in the hood; looking out for one another as they journey through the thickest of it. There are multiple layers at which the viewer can determine how connected the women are; the first and most fundamental layer being that they are of the same race and economic status. Because of these similarities with their backgrounds and the ways they grew up, viewers find even more similarities in their lifestyles, humors, and thoughts about the world. In “Set It Off� the viewer witnesses these sisters risk their lives for each other when they wind up in the worst sort of trouble. It is through the common history of these females that this nature of a shared sisterhood is established.

It can also be said in “Thelma and Louise� that a sisterhood is established between the two main characters. However, this time the viewer would’ve noticed that the two females came from different places: emotional places and even experiential places. In noticing that, the viewer is immediately set up for a slightly different type of sisterhood than that of the women in “Set It Off.� This sort of sisterhood is the kind where two opposite types of people either share a common experience or go through a crisis together and in turn develop the bond of a sisterhood. Amidst all the turmoil (the violence, fleeing and robbery) that began with Louise saving her friend Thelma from the rapist, the women run together and sacrifice nothing to those who want to attain them. The fact that neither of them would sacrifice each other for any sort of gain proves that there exists a sisterhood-esque bond—thick as any—between these two females.

“How are endings similar or different?�

Because of these dense bonds that have been formed between the female in both “Set It Off� and “Thelma and Louise�, these two films are definitely set up with similarities. The first and most significant element that causes these films to go in similar directions is the sisterhoods that are formed between the main characters. The viewer has the chance to witness both the build and the rise of these friendships and in turn watches them unravel at the peak of each film. The point and which these sisterhoods ‘unravel’ is when the viewer gets a true insight at the power and meaning behind these bonds that the women have formed.

Set it Off and Thelma & Louise

“Through character development, this scene establishes, who will live, and foreshadows who will die.� (Springer 188)

In Set it Off sisterhood was established in the beginning with the four characters. They all have different personalities from each other from each other, but each one of them is very accepting of their differences, such as Frankie who had a very good job at a bank, Tisean who is the single mom, Cleo who is the aggressive masculine lesbian, and Stony who grew up with her brother alone. These women are different as it can be, but they could relate and understand each other's problems and help one another out. Their loyalty is established by sticking together with each one of their issues and being in understanding in their problems they face.
The film presented the men robbing the bank in the beginning, and mainly the four women robbing banks throughout the film. The violence committed by these African American women seems more violent with the gun shooting, and has more of a serious tone with the scenes within the movie than Thelma & Louise.

In Thelma & Louise, sisterhood was established by the two women going on a trip, as they became outlaws. Through the film they formed a special bond and loyalty with each other helping each other out when needed such as Louise telling Thelma to watch out for people, and Thelma helps Louise out when she is in the cop car.
The violence in this film seems to be switched by gender, except for Harlan in the beginning who was very violent towards Thelma. For example, Thelma and Louise are committing the crimes, but the men were always waiting at home on these women. Some violence committed by the two American women seem to have more of a humorous genre to it, but there were a few scenes in this film that was serious.

Culture: Perpetuated Ideas

How are sisterhood and loyalty established?
In both Thelma and Louise and Set It Off used the ideas of sisterhood and loyalty as a momentous and essential theme in the films. In Thelma and Louise, the two women intrinsically need to have a bond, the sisterhood and the requirement of loyalty in order to embark on their trip in the first place. The two women are going on the road, they are two white females who seldom incur freedom from (oppressive) men and therefore depend on one another’s strengths to help motivate their travel. When the two first get into trouble, it was this bond, their intrinsic loyalty to one another that allows them to ultimately overcome their first oppressor and give them the motivation to continue with their trip. From this point on it’s all in the loyalty that the two can perform their crimes, and ultimately agree on death for themselves.

In Set It Off the idea of sisterhood and loyalty are portrayed a bit differently. Although the themes are essential to the plot, sisterhood and loyalty, due to culture and location, display essential differences from Thelma and Louise. In Set It Off the women are ultimately dependent upon their sisterhood all of the time. This is apparent because they do not actually embark on a trip, and therefore use the idea of sisterhood and loyalty at all times. However, this idea is heightened when the women decide to induce crime, and loyalty becomes the most important thing.

When Cleo becomes “irresponsible� with her cut of the money they stole it plays out like as a disrespect to the rest of the women. All four of the women’s situations are completely different and Cleo seems the least strapped or deserved of the cash, therefore her loyalty and sisterhood are questioned by the other women.

How is violence coded by gender and color?
In the film Set It Off gender and color are a significant idea behind the plot. It’s seen that these women are struggling to make it, that they’ve been brought into a neighborhood/situation and therefore they are required to bring themselves out of this situation. In Thelma and Louise their gender is less of an issue because they remain in sensical line with their femininity, unlike in Set It Off where they’ve developed themselves into essential men in order to overcome what they’re ultimately fighting. In T&L the notion that they are women is important in relation to their violence, but not once did the fact that they were white become an issue. Their violence was seen as more defense than malicious act.
In Set It Off the women were seen as being perpetuated by their situation, their “nature,� per se, that conditions them to be violent, and therefore it’s more expected but less accepted. Their violence, due to color and culture, is less acceptable. They’re malicious?

Bonds of sisterhood and Set it Off as "road movie"

How are sisterhood and loyalty established?:
In both Thelma and Louise and Set it Off, the main characters are already good friends. Thelma and Louise talk to each other on the phone and are vacationing together over a weekend. Stony, Cleo, TT and Frankie grew up together in the projects; after Frankie gets fired from the bank, all of them work together, and they all party together. Thus, in a way, they are all already sisters. However, the bonds of sisterhood and loyalty are deepened when tragedy strikes.

In the case of Thelma and Louise, the women become bonded when Harlan attempts to rape Thelma. Louise (we guess based on allusions made to the incident in 'Texas') was a rape victim herself and was manhandled by the criminal justice system. When she came upon Harlan attempting to rape Thelma, all of that hurt, anguish, and distrust came back. Louise was victimized twice over (once by her perpetrator and once by the system)...and she couldn't let that happen to her good friend. In that split-second decision to squeeze the trigger, Louise killed Harlan as much for herself as she did to protect Thelma. And in doing so, they were bonded for life -- not only because they were both victimized, but because they took control by fighting back, thus making them survivors. While Thelma still had a way out (she wasn't the one who pulled the trigger), she recognized the depth of Louise's sacrifice and stayed on for the ride of her life. Thelma was able to repay Louise's loyalty by robbing the convenience store for gas money, thus making her as much of a criminal as Louise. In the end, these women recognized that the deepest bond they ever had was formed when they sacrificed everything for each other -- they were sisters as they drove off that cliff together.

In Set it Off, the bonds of sisterhood run deep in the projects. These women grew up together, ran together, and got in trouble together. Even when Frankie got her job at the bank (thus getting out of the ghetto life), she still spent her time hanging out with Cleo, TT, and Stony, who were all still living in the projects -- they were her people and they always would be. Loyalty also runs deep -- when Stevie was shot and killed, the women stuck together and comforted one another, since there was no one else: they only had each other. The system also victimized this group of women not once, but twice: when persecuting Frankie for knowing the robber and for killing innocent Stevie. When the women decide to fight back (by screwing the system that screwed them), the bond between them is solidified -- they become partners in crime in order (which requires deep trust) in order to achieve the same basic goal: to get enough money to get out of the projects. These women wouldn't rat on each other if given the chance. And three of them died in their pursuit of a better life for themselves and each other -- that is sisterhood and loyalty.

Why is Set it Off a Road Movie?:
The road, as we have learned is a physical entity -- pavement beneath the wheels of our vehicle for the purpose of guiding our way to and from our destinations. The road can also represent upward movement -- overcoming one's stationary status and becoming more than what one currently is. The 'road' can also be a metaphor for a psychological journey out of one's current mental status into another. It is in these latter two that we find Set it Off. Set it Off is, ultimately, a film about four women from the 'hood who were screwed over by the system in every way who were trying to get more money in order to get out of the ghetto. They wanted upward movement in terms of social and financial status. Thus, their road was less about traveling a great distance and more about getting across town to a better neighborhood and a better life. They attempted to achieve this by criminal means, since that was the only option left for these women -- all other avenues to their destination failed to get them out.

In the end of the film, Stony was the only one who remained alive -- and with a large portion of their stolen money. She had the money to achieve that upward movement, but it was tempered with the anguish that comes from the high price she paid (the loss of her 3 best friends). But, as the montage at the end indicated, these sisters wanted a better life for each other. Thus, Stony had to make the psychological journey out of guilt for the deaths of her friends and move towards honoring their sacrifice by living the better life they so desperately wanted.

The pursuit of upward movement and psychological movement can be a journey as epic as traveling a great distance. Thus, Set it Off can fit in the road movie genre.

Set it Off: A Road Movie?

How is the outlaw status justified?
In both Thelma & Louise and Set it Off, the outlaw status is justified by oppression. Each movie presents a set of women who have very few options left because of their places in society. Thelma and Louise have been beaten down by men and have lost their freedom. In Set it Off, the women are trapped because of their race and incomes. With no other options left, this somewhat justifies their crimes. The viewer sympathises with them, and understands that they have been forced into this outlaw status by society.
Why is Set it Off a road movie?
I don't agree that this should be considered a road movie. Would a movie about a man plotting a murder, but never actually committing it, be seen as a murder mystery? No, because with no murder taking place, there can be no mystery. Similarly, the desire to take to the road in Set it Off is not enough to make it a road movie. A road film implies travel and mobility. This movie which is lacking these things cannot be placed in the Road film genre. If anything, it is an anti-road film. It is a look at what happens when the road is not present. But just as a comedy should not be considered as a drama, this anti-road movie should not be considered a road movie.

Set it Off vs. Thelma and Louise

How are freedom and the road confounded in each film?
In both films, the road is seen is a source of freedom. The road is a mechanism of escape from their every day lives which have oppressed them. The road is also what leads to their doom as in both films they get caught on the road. In Thelma and Louise, they find trouble while on the road and then try to escape it as opposed to in Set it Off where they find trouble and then try to escape it by going on the road. In Thelma and Louise freedom is found on the road, and finally in their deaths. This is very different from Set it Off when three of the four girls are brutally shot down, finding no freedom in their demise. In both films the road is both a benefactor and a thief of freedom.

How are the endings similar and different?
In Thelma and Louise they die together as sisters. They are in control of their own death and die at their own hands. In Set it Off, they do not die together, in fact- one of them survives. They are also dying without the freedom that Thelma and Louise had aquired and at the hands of the police. Even in their deaths the women of Set it Off are still being oppressed. In both films their is the idea of a "good" white cop who tries to talk them down, but in both cases he is seen as a patriarchal figure who treats them as little girls and ultimately fails. His failure is because of his unwillingness to see these women as real people and as outlaws.

Where do women go from here?

"Thelma and Louise" and "Set it Off" are similar movies that question women's struggles on the road and result in the women becoming outlaws. Although these two movies carry the same theme, there are also several differences between the two. "Set it Off" also adds the issues of race (the main characters are African-American), economics (the four women live in the projects) and homosexuality (because Cleo is gay).

The landscapes of the two films vary for in several ways. Thelma and Louise come from lower to middle class neighborhoods. One is a waitress with a boyfriend, the other is a married housewife. One of the women in "Set it Off" has a child, and the four women end up working for the same janitorial service. The other main difference in landscape of the films is that of the road itself. While Thelma and Louise take off in Louise's thunderbird making it through several states and ending at the Grand Canyon in Arizona, Cleo and her girls never make it out of the city (with the exception of Stoney at the very end of the film). The scenery of "Set it Off" is mainly focused in the projects and at the bank that they rob. There is also a glimpse of upper-class life when Stoney visits Blair, the banker, in his home and accompanies him to a job-related party. It could be said that Stoney is the only one who truly finds the road, and she is forced to choose between two very different ones.

One similarity of the two films is the role of the white, male cop. In both movies he is the leader of the investigation to find the women, and in both films he acts as if he is trying to help them and truly cares about their survival. I'm not sure why these films chose to put the lead police officer on a pedistal as if he is truly seeking fair and positive justice in the world. It also makes me wonder why the white male is not in a position of danger or being unfairly treated by society; he is in both cases a sort of courageous super hero urging the women to do the right thing. Judging the films by this point alone do they not then just reinforce all the stereotypes of race, class and gender that already exist?

It is hard to say why both directors chose the white male as a "good guy" or why the white women of "Thelma and Louise" make it on the road and the black women of "Set it Off" do not. Both films also leave the audience wondering if the only escape from the injustices of society for women is death. Out of the six characters in these two films, Stoney is the only one who lives. However, it makes a person wonder if she would be better off dead too considering she ends up in Mexico without her friends and without her lover. By surviving she is not any better off than her friends, or the women of "Thelma and Louise." In the end is the moral of the story that women should do as their told, not take to the road and certainly not become criminals?

Freedom by all means, even through Death

Comparing Set it Off and Thelma and Louise:
How is the road as a symbol of freedom accessed?
The road in both films lead to a better place: a place where there are hopes for happiness. The road takes them away from the system that has done them no good, they have given up on trying to change things in the society they live in. If they are able to reach the road they can leave everything behind ( the people that have treated them unfairly, the system that has discriminated against them for race or gender). The four women in Set it Off have dealt with whatever they were handed and accepted it, but there comes a breaking point where they have no where to turn and no hope left for a happy future (When Stevie dies, Frankie loses her job on false accusations, and when Tisean's child gets taken away). Same goes for Thelma and Louise, they have lived for so long being okay with how they were treated but they also reach a breaking point (no one would believe that Harlan was going to rape Thelma). These women look to the road to take them away, give them options that are not offered to them where they are currently at. In Thelma and Louise they get on the road but struggle to remain on the road, whereas in Set it Off the four women struggle to get to the road. This difference does not change the meaning of the road in both films. The road is freedom in both films, whether they are on it and want to hold on to whatever freedom they have attained or keep on striving to get to it.
How are the ending similar or different?
There is similarity in the ending on the note that all the women found freedom. Cleo, Frankie and Tisean all died but isn't that also a way out? They did not leave by the road, but they still left. Stoney did reach the road and set off to freedom, living that part of the dream for the other three. In Thelma and Louise they also reached freedom, the same way Cleo, Frankie and Tisean did. Another similarity is how in both films there was no men involved in the end. All the women were independent to the ends of their lives. Even when Stoney had another option (Keith), she decided to leave and make it on her own.

set it off vs. thelma and louise

This movie broke my heart. I guess i like cheesy happy endings, but there was so much pain and death, it was hard for me to watch. Although Thelma and Louise was criticized for being too violent and barbaric, Set it Off is much worse in that sense. I can't help but think that perhaps there wasn't as much uproar around this movie because of the race it employed. Is this type of violence more expected of African American women from the project? They certainly weren't your typical domestic housewife. I found it much more upsetting to watch than Thelma and Louise. On to comparisons...
The landscapes were directly contrasted from the dry, open nature of the Southwest to closed, urban encasement of Los Angeles. Unlike in Thelma and Louise, the film didn't open with any domestic, typical gender role scenes, such as Thelma in the kitchen with Darryl or Louise at the diner. While Thelma and Louise felt more mentally trapped, the landscape in Set it Off physically and emotionally traps the women. They never even make it to the road. Again we see race play a role; they appear trapped by their own skin color. There is a direct juxtaposition of landscape in the ending scenes of both films. Both include chasing helicopters and streams of cop cars, but the freedom of the road in Thelma and Louise is contrasted with towering skyscrapers, other traffic, and tunnels that trap the outlaws in Set it Off.
Sisterhood and Loyalty i felt were more similar than different in these two films. Each woman demonstrated that they would do anything for a friend, including risking their own lives. Most dramatic to me in Set it Off were the end scenes, beginning with the bank and ending with the brutal deaths of Cleo and Frankie. Cleo tells Frankie and Stoney to get out of the car and run while they're trapped in the tunnel. In essence she is sacrificing herself for them. Another scene of loyalty includes when Stoney agrees to rob the final bank. She puts her friends before her chance at freedom from the projects and a man who truly cares about her. She too is making the ultimate sacrifice.

Set it Off vs. Thelma & Louise

Access to the road is quite different in these 2 movies. In "Set It Off" they were forced onto the road because they chose a life of crime, and had to escape, whereas in "Thelma & Louise" they chose their own road, even though it didn't quite end up the way they planned. But both had tragic endings.

How are sisterhood and loyalty established?
In "Set it Off" they have obviously been tight since they were young, so that sisterhood has been established already, but loyalty is established by complying to rob the next bank with the rest of the girls. If you back out, you aren't loyal to the group. Compared to "Thelma & Louise" where they are best friends, but their sisterhood grows stronger on the road. As does loyalty, when Thelma decides she will stay with Louise and travel to Mexico- she is loyal to her friend.

Why is "Set it Off" a road movie?
It's a road movie because they are looking for a way out of the projects, and spend the entire movie trying to get enough money so they can "get out of this town". In this way, since they are looking for a way out, and trying to get enough money so "hitting the road" is possible, it could be called a road movie. They see the road as liberating, and are looking for a way to access it the whole time.

AND, I would just like to say that every road movie ends in disaster and death, that's depressing.

That didn't really end well.... did it.

The scenery in each movie really says a lot to me about accessibility of the road and just freedom in general. The white Thelma and Louise initially take to the road of their own choosing and set out across a beautiful southern landscape. Set It Off shows four black women unable to escape their grimy urban environment full of crime and racist/sexist law enforcement. While Thelma & Louise was controversial and revolutionary for women, when compared to Set It Off it restates the white privilege of making it to the road. I think it is significant to the scenery that the three black women die before making it to the road in Set It Off.

The function of the white cop in Set It Off versus in Thelma & Louise plays out to emphasize the classically known roles of white cops dealing with subdominant races. In Thelma & Louise the cop pursuing the white women, Hal, almost unrealistically relates to and cares about the women as they drive farther and farther into their outlaw status. Cinematically Hal is the white male who is allowed to have knowledge about Louise that even Thelma doesn’t know, cementing his power over them as a man; In Set It Off the same dynamic is found but with race and gender, obviously. Detective Strode does not have the calm ability to collect information about the girls the way Hal did about Louise, and he seems to feel no true remorse as he’s mistakenly ordered the killing of an innocent black boy. His function in this movie is to emphasize the themes of unjust treatment of women of color. Both cops however are astonished by the women’s ability to perform such crimes, and echo especially the shock that audiences got as they saw Thelma & Louise in the early 90s.

Set It Off vs Thelma and Louise

Both Set It Off and Thelma and Louise have strong established relationships between the women as friends. We see this in Set It Off while the women are sitting atop of the roof getting high together. We gain a sense of their togetherness and compassion for each other. They talk about the "old" days so we know that they have been friends for a long time. Thelma and Louise still has this establishment of friendship, but I feel that they are not friends from when they were young children. They never talk about their lives before their adulthood. In regards to race and class, it is stereotyped that more African Americans from the projects are "pot heads" and this is idea is used to establish the friendship among the four women.
The endings in both films are tragic in the sense that the characters die, except for Stoney. However, one could question wether or not it really is tragic. In both films the women were being oppressed and they could not get away from the abuse they were facing, thus they turned to lives of violence. In Thelma and Louise, Thelma finally gained a sense of self and was happy with her life, even though she was a felon. The women in Set It Off were too being oppressed and trying to escape from the projects and start a new life. Even though not all of the women were as fortunate as Stoney, who was able to start a new in Mexico with all the money, they did finally get out of the projects.

Sisterhood and Outlaw Status

The four girls in Set It Off are good friends at the beginning of the movie. They become better friends throughout the film as they make decisions that only they can know about. Their loyalty is established by the banks that they rob and must keep between themselves. There are times when certain members of their group feel that they should stop robbing the banks but they always come back to needing money for T.T. to help her get her son back. They also want the money so that they can rise up and overcome living in the projects and the way that they were raised. This gives them all the motivation to keep on robbing the banks and sticking by their sisters. They create a bond that lasts throughout the entire movie, even until they end when they must part to be able to survive. In Thelma and Louise their loyalty is established in much the same way as Set It Off. They set out on the road to have a relaxing weekend to get away from it all and end up running from the law. They become close by killing the people they meet because all they have is one another. Their friendship is reaffirmed at the end of the movie when they decide that they will die together. If killing yourself with your best friend is not sisterhood and loyalty, then I don't know what is.
The outlaw status in both films is justified in similar ways. In Set It Off they justify their bank robbing at first because they are helping T.T. to get money to get her son out of social services custody. They also feel justified in doing it because Stony's brother was killed by the cops when he was mistaken for someone else. They also decide that if they are ever going to move out of the projects that they will have to rob a bank to get the money to do it. Thelma and Louise also justify their acts of murder throughout the film. At first their murder is justified as self-defense for Louise so that she wouldn't be injured or raped by the man at the bar. It becomes easier for them to kill people throughout the movie because they did it once already. We also feel that Thelma has been pushed to the edge by her husband. We justify her outlawness by the fact that we feel sorry for what she has had to go through.

Who you running from?

"Thelma &Louise" and "Set it off" are two movies that center around female characters trying to flee the injustices of their lives, and also the law. Both movies being with an initial momentum to action. Thelma and Louise go on a road trip, but only start to flee when they realize that the law will never believe their killing of a man was self-defense from rape. In "Set if off" the various women go through different experiences, one loses a job, another loses her brother who was murdered by cops and another is under threat of losing her son. These actions brought down on them by the law or another authority place the women of both movies in a situation where they must fight for their survival. But their survival and their struggle is presented and affected differently becuase of the circumstances of the lives of the two groups of women.

Once these women have been shunned and hurt by the world or the system around them, their only recourse is to find their own way of survival. The viewer wants Thelma and Louise to run away because the law will punish them unnecessarily. The same occurs with the women of "Set it off." These women have suffered through no fault of their own, and they must find a way to make something of their lives. So the narrative of each movie provides the women with a reason and right to become outlaws. Both groups of women begin their story being quite non-violent, but as their circumstances become more dire, then violence becomes more prevalent. They don't begin with violence (though they always have guns) but the violence escalates as the law and other's around them become threats to the women

The violence is colored by the gender and race of those involved. One similarity between the movies comes from the fact that en both narratives it is women fighting against male-controlled power. Thelma and Louise are running away from the investigator Hal, having to struggle in various ways with other men, which they are romantically involved with. The four women in "Set if off" also struggle against male power. They have male bosses who treat them badly, and are also trying to evade Detective Strode. Stony also has a love interest, which she has to juggle with the circumstances of her life. So, in a sense the women are having to make their choices and their escape against the male bodies that affect their lives.

Some the differences between the women of "Set if off" and "Thelma & Louise" seems to arise from differences of race. The white women of "Thelma & Louise" have the freedom of mobility, to travel away in a car. They aren't trapped in a city or a neighbourhood. Their escape occurs in the open road. The four black women do not have the privilige of mobility, but instead are struggling to find it. Their goal is the open road itself, with not much thought given to their final destination. This distinction in circumstance causes the violence within the stories to be different. Thelm and Louise, with their mobility, can escape from the violence. But Stony, Cleo, Frankie and T.T. are necessarilly trapped, and have to face their battle for freedom head on, not being able to escape or evade the violence. This difference marks the different endings for the women. The two white women chose their death, and had the power to kill themselved. But T.T was killed in the act of a crime, and Cleo and Frankie chose to die, but were massacred by the law. The extent and type of violence within both narratives were marked by the gender of the protagonists, but the black women suffered more from their circumstances.

So Much Oppression

Why is “Set it Off� a road movie?
How is auto-mobility achieved?

Race operates in tandem with class in both Thelma and Louise and Set It Off in determining how auto-mobility is achieved and what type of road film happens.

In Thelma and Louise you have a traditional road film in terms of the story arch, but the nature of the road film is disrupted by the gender of the people traveling on the road. Thelma and Louise’s gender is the force they are reckoning with throughout the film and the obstacles they face surround gender and money. Auto-mobility in this film is much easier to achieve, because although T&L are not wealthy, they have the benefit of small amounts of money that they were able to set aside. So, they can get on the road and have momentum in their journey without worrying about money for things like food or gasoline.

In Set It Off, the road film story is disrupted by race, class and gender, making it so much more difficult to get on the road. The obstacles and oppressions they face while on their journey (to the road) are based in their intersectional position as poor women of color. Set It Off is a road film because the characters are trying to get from one place to another – in the projects to out of the projects – and the narrative has them getting closer and closer to their destination. Auto-mobility and the success of their journey is classed, both in their need for crime to facilitate the departure and in the nature of their journey. They achieve auto-mobility (a car and the ability to physically and financially get out of poverty) through stealing, a tactic that is representational of the desperation of poverty and oppression. Some in the class have said that the violence was gratuitous, and I think that perspective fails to look past the acts that are being committed and see how the characters have been driven to those acts. The journey in Set It Off to get to the road is filled with so many obstacles and injustices, that by the end it feels as though the characters were acting purely through self-defense.

Thelma & Louise and Set it Off

A sense of sisterhood and loyalty is present in both Thelma and Louise and Set it Off, though they come from different circumstances. Thelma and Louise feel this connection to a certain extent as friends, but it is clear that the truly strong bond that leads them to commit suicide together does not begin to develop until after they start running from the law together--after Louise kills Harlan. The four friend in Set it Off, on the other hand, seem to have a much closer relationship and an immediate sense of sisterhood from the very beginning of the film, seemingly derived from their situation--living in the projects--and mutual desire to change that situation. In these two instances, the white, middle-class women and the lower-class black women are driven together by situations that make them want something more than friendship--a closer relationship with the women important to them. For the white women, their sisterhood is strengthened by the active threat of rape, a definitive external force that drives them together; for the black women, it is simply the conditions in which they live that brings them close together (although the straight women are closer to each other than they are to Cleo, whose lesbian relationship makes them uneasy). It seems as though the white women can afford to have an easy friendship because of the greater freedom their race gives them, while the black women must have the strong sisterly bond from the beginning to merely survive the perils of being underprivileged both financially and racially.

Violence in Set it Off is much more graphic and omnipresent than in Thelma and Louise, though much of it is committed by men in the former. The opening bank robbery in which Frankie watches one of the (male) robbers shoot a woman in the head is much more graphic than the women's later violent crime, when Tisean shoots Luther as he threatens Cleo. Tisean's crime is much more like Louise's shooting of Harlan than the shooting Frankie witnesses during the robbery--both Louise and Tisean shoot to protect their friends from a male threat. However, this is one of the few similarities between the women in these two movies when it comes to violence. The bank robbers in Set it Off are much more willing to threaten bystanders with their guns than Thelma and Louise are (the latter apologize profusely to the highway cop as they lock him in his trunk at gunpoint while the former shout at bank patrons as they point guns at them and steal the money). It is as if the people behind these two films believe that violence is more acceptable to the audience when it is committed by black women or by men--the white women are considered victims of circumstance for much of their film, while the black women are immediately suspected of malicious wrongdoing--so that Thelma and Louise's crimes are immediately justified while the Set it Off ladies' crimes are a little more morally ambiguous. The privilege of the white women here is clear--they commit justifiable homicide and get a chance to hit the road and run from the authorities while the black women are suspected from the start and are trapped in Los Angeles.

sad movie.

A similarity between Thelma & Louise and Set It Off is the perception of their outlaw status. Thelma and Louise were both commiting crimes, but it was hard not to sympathize with them. They were persecuted as well, Thelma was nearly raped for being a naive, white woman. Fate dealt them a lousy hand, and they dug themselves further in with each decision, until it seemed as if there was no other option than to keep doing what they were doing. Set It Off gives the impression that the four main women never had a chance to lead a stable life because of their backgrounds. The only person who was trying to further her career was Frankie; then, she gets accused of helping the men rob the bank. She wouldn't've known these men if she hadn't grown up in the projects. The four of them see no other option but to rob banks for money. In theory, this is the worst idea ever, but for some reason, watching them succeed brings feelings of joy and sympathy. It feels as if they really do not have any other choice but to become outlaws to even their own community.

The sisterhood and loyalty differ in each of these films. Thelma and Louise are close and maintain the "we both go down together" mentality until they drive their car off of the Grand Canyon. In Set It Off, the four women do not get the experience, or the glory, of dying together. They all are killed one by one, the sad Queen Latifah song playing through the end. Stony is the only character that makes it to the road, and she is left to travel alone.

March 30, 2008

Set It Off and Keep Going

How do you compare a "classic" American women's road movie with a more modern road movie, the latter of which never actually makes it to the road? I have always enjoyed "Set It Off" and being able to analyze this one with a classic is eye-opening.

How are sisterhood and loyalty established?
In Thelma and Louise, the two women bonded through their mutual run from the law. Though unintentional, they both remained loyal to each other by sticking together on the road and growing and “evolving� together. In Set It Off, sisterhood and loyalty grown closer through their mutual trials and tribulations that they see each other experience. They all experience individual tragedies at the same time, and feel like they are hitting a brick wall. This becomes the initial bond that ties their friendship, and is bonded together by street loyalty of “keeping your mouth shut� and going along with the rest of the group once they start robbing banks. Although people like T.T. and Stony are initially reluctant, they go along with the rest of the group out of friendship, loyalty, and the mutual feeling that they have no other place to go. I also found the films both posess mutual hatred for overly aggressive male figures (Luther in Set It Off, the rapist and Thelma’s husband in Thelma & Louise) It’s also interesting how both groups of women had a mutual goal: to reach the road in Mexico for escape and new freedom. Even though only one woman out of the 6 total combined in the films actually reaches this goal, the outlook of freedom bonds them all.

How does the role of the white cop function in the narrative?
In Thelma & Louise, I saw the white cop as the female compared to the masculine women running the show. Even though he was supposed to be a source of authority and power, he was so passive it almost made me sick. He saw and treated the women as delicate little flowers, and not the fugitives he was supposed to be pursuing. In Set It Off, the lead officer is more aggressive than the cop in T&L, but still is astonished at the fact that a group of women can be running the show, robbing all these banks. They also make a lot of evident mistakes in both the initial investigation of the bank robberies, and their investigation of the 4 women; which I feel is due to their over-confidence because of how they initially judged Frankie, Stony’s brother, and the rest of the colored people in the projects. In T&L, there wasn't that large, evident divide of race seperating the cops from the women. Because of what happened to Stony’s brother, I think the lead officer in Set It Off also seems to feel an enormous amount of guilt, and that is why he seems more “gentle� and lenient when dealing with her in comparison to the other women.

How are the endings similar and different?
In both endings, the women meet their demise after running from the law for so long. Although in “Thelma and Louise� we never actually see them die, it is assumed, since they drove their car off the Grand Canyon. They had an almost successful road adventure, in which they seemed to finally find their voices and identities through being outlaws on the road. In Set It Off, all of the women but Stony die. It seems to be their punishment for their crimes and running for the road. It almost seems that, even though Stony was equally liable in all of the bank robberies, she lives because she had tried and attempted to make a better life for herself, even though she only succeeded once she reaches Mexico.

Set It Off

How is violence coded by gender and color?

In Thelma & Louise, violence is coded by gender. Throughout the film, male oppressiveness is consistently subverted by the two women's journey toward escape. It is specifically the heteronormativity of the film's relationships that is undone/criticized by violence--abusive husbands, rapists, aggressively crude truck drivers, and swindling crooks comprise the sorts of male-dominated arenas that seek to persecute women, and they are (nearly) all destroyed or maimed. In Set It Off, violence is coded by both gender and color, although color is much more prominent. The four women in this film are victims of unjust bureaucracy and racist societal codes that are ruled by and mainly serve white citizens. Although there is much unsympathetic violence committed by African American characters in the film (for example, in the opening bank robbery committed by males) that shifts the narrative into strongly feminist territory, essentially all of the film's violent acts are clearly signified as interracial. The fact that nearly all of the film's violence is committed by black characters is somewhat troubling, but said violence is not glamorized by the film's end.

How does the role of the white cop function in the narrative?

In both Thelma & Louise and Set It Off, the white cop is portrayed as a counterbalancing force that must comprehend and stifle the revolutionary actions of women--actions that are inseparable from the cultural, economic, political, etc. hardships that caused them. The two white cops serve as semi-sympathetic figures outside of the "oppressed minority" sphere who repeatedly question what they are doing and attempt to bring dangerous, climactic situations to peaceful conclusions that, unfortunately, often end in the deaths of the rebellious women at their own hands. While the continued presence of the cop in Thelma & Louise tends to undermine the film's feminist messages (as it maintains a phallocentric narrative despite its self-reflexive criticism), the cop in Set It Off is presented as a remorseful, conflicted side-character who must maintain order at the cost of a (somewhat) legitimate feminine uprising--the women's situation is not justified, but the alternative is not just, either.

Sisterhood and Freedom is Established

Throughout the course of these feminist road films we are able to see this loyalty and bond through sisterhood that is created through connections made with the presence of suffering. In Thelma and Louise both women are able to bond through their experience of rape and abuse by the men that they encounter. Through their journey their relationship is strengthened as they move further and further toward feminism and away from the societal norms that have been enforced on them by men. In Set it Off the women are initially bonded through childhood and upbringing emphasizes the connection found through poverty. As time passes and the individual women begin to be taken prisoner by the system that is both dominated in terms of race and gender of the white male and stripped of any power they may have possessed over their own lives. They realize that their misfortunes can strengthen their sense of sisterhood allowing them to raise up and fight against the system to reach a state of power and stability.

In the two films as the women move further down the road the journey provides them with accessibility in reaching freedom. Both Thelma and Louise as they continue to beat the male dominated system with situations when Thelma robs the convenience store and the two women shoot up the semi-truck realize the freedom that they have provided themselves with by standing up for the rights as women. Similar to these examples in Thelma and Louise, the women in Set it Off continue their path toward empowerment as they continue to “set off� the system. The more illegal activity they involve themselves in the more free they become knowing that they are leaving social constructions of normality behind allowing themselves to feel privileged something the white male dominated system has never allowed them to experience.

Set It Off vs. Thelma and Louise

How are freedom and the road confounded in each film?

The road is freedom and freedom is the road in each of these films. In Thelma and Louise, Thelma and Louise's freedom is only found on the road. If they stop for too long, they will no longer be free, but if they continue to move, they are more likely to remain free. In the movie, Set it Off, the women are free even though they are not on the road but at the end of the movie, the only way for them to be free is to set off on the road and lose their former identities. In both of the films the women choose to die for their freedom. If they were faced with the option to be free with the end result being death or being caught and incarcerated with the ability to survive, all of the women, except for Stoney, chose freedom and death. Stoney ended up being the exception to the rule. She saw the road as her only source of freedom but ended up surviving without being caught. Freedom and the road go hand in hand and it would seem impossible to have one without the other.

How are the endings similar and different?

The endings are similar in that there is the option of death or incarceration, and all of the ladies choose to die for their freedom, except for Stoney. She was lucky enough to choose freedom and survive on the road, where all of the other ladies died for their freedom. The end of Thelma and Louise is different from Set It Off in that the women stand and die together in Thelma and Louise whereas in Set It Off they choose to part and die alone. Set It Off was much more violent in the end compared to Thelma and Louise. The endings are similar in that the white cop in each movie has an attachment to the women and genuinely cares about their well being and is extremely dissappointed in their choices and deaths.

White privilege is everywhere

The first question that caught my attention, was "How is outlaw status justified?" I immediately started thinking about Thelma and Louise, and how the main charcters are not treated as dangerous criminials but as defenseless white women that only need help from their male counterparts, as well as the police, to save them from a life of running on the road. Their outlaw stastus is only justifed because it makes the audience feel sorry for these women, both of whom are rape victims. We know their pasts and therefore, we can understand why they are on the run. However, the women in Set it Off are not offered help, but chased after with anger. The audience does not have a clear idea of the women's past and all we know is that each woman has their own reason for committing these armed robberies. Now since these four women are from the "hood" they are seen from the start as poor and aggressive. Their outlaw status is justifed by their desire to want better for themselves, especially economically. However, due to the use of guns and the aggression that each woman developed by the last robbery, its easy to see how some people watching the movie may not feel that these women are not justified. There is no good way to look at it. How can we accept one and not the other? But as we discussed in class, I believe the "white privilege" held a large impact on the women in Set it Off. I continue to believe that if Set it Off was about 4 white women trying to get out of poverty by robbing banks, they would be treated differently, probably with more sensitivity.

I paid close attention to the main cops in each movie. So I had to comment on the question, "How does the role of the white cop function in the narrative?" We could see how the cop in Thelma and Louise treated both women as respectively as possible and actually showed care and concern for their well beings. He tried to save them in the end and was not successful. I really don't believe that, if these women weren't white, they wouldn't recieve the same treatment. I think its safe to say that with white priviledge comes a more respectful response to crimes from the white cop as well as the other law enforcement agents; respectful meaning a less aggressive approach. Of course we see the complete opposite in Set it Off. The white cop performed in a manner which is much more realistic in society, but especially within the African-American community. There is no peaceful conversation when he was talking to Frankie at the bank in the beggining or with Cleo when he took her downtown for the police line-up. The only time we saw this white cop with any sensitvity toward the women is when Stoney's little brother is killed and during the last robbery the women attempted to pull. So, in this case, comparing these two road films, I feel that the white cop role played in each movie, was exactly on point. I can believe that white cops would act the same in reality as they did in each movie because of the racial differences between the characters in Set it Off and Thelma and Louise.

Common Themes

Sisterhood and loyalty are established in a very unique way in both Set It Off and Thelma and Louise. Because they become the only people known to their secrets, they essentially are eachother's family and only contact. Since what they are doing, in both cases is illegal, they must be loyal to eachother in order to protect one another. This bond seems to be established more quickly and deeper than in men who are participating in the same type of activity. We see in Set It Off that the women each sacrifice themselves in the hopes of protecting another, and in Thelma and Louise, they drive off into their freedom holding hands after sharing a family like kiss.

The landscapes really shaped the scene for each movie. Thelma and Louise were able to achieve freedom easier because they were conquering the new frontier in which they could dissapear without a trace. For the women in Set It Off, it was a different situation. The girls were in plain view everyday in a bustling city and in their "hood". They remained going to work as to appear that nothing had changed. These were essential in determining the outcomes of each movie and their evasion of the cops.

A Bad Movie That Justifies Criminal Behavior

How are sisterhood and loyalty established?
Compared with "Thelma and Louise" sisterhood and loyalty are established through mutual misery rather than true loyalty and friendship. "Thelma and Louise" was a movie where sisterhood and loyalty were already established before we saw much of the movie. They were in agreement to go travel the road together and find their freedom. They only commit the crimes as a statement of loyalty to each other because they are doing it to defend each other from the people who have treated them unjustly. The characters of this movie, in particular the character Cleopatra 'Cleo' Sims, continually have to threaten the group of characters to stay together. Cleo reminds the group that they have been through many hardships based on how other people have treated them and that they can justify their criminal behavior by treating other the same way. Cleo threatens the group with bad language and violence, making them feel guilty and obligated to stay around herself. Without such reminders and threats of violence, it is likely that the group would leave her for a life of good conscience and morality. Therefore, there is quite a difference in the manner the movie "Thelma and Louise" and "Set It Off" establish sisterhood and loyalty.

How are the landscapes different?
The physical and social landscapes of "Thelma and Louise" and "Set It Off" are quite similar and different in many manners. The physical and social landscapes can give the movies an interesting contrast that can explain the actions of the characters. The physical and social landscape of "Thelma and Louise" is more western, more rural with fewer nodes or places where people generally meet. The spatial patterns are larger and the manmade interests are spaced out more. Therefore, the action usually comes as a result of what Thelma and Louise do whether they go to a night club or whether they decide to pick up a stranger. The physical and social landscape of "Set It Off" is quite different as it is set in the middle of busy downtown Los Angeles. The enviornment features many more nodes or places where people can come together and meet. The action in the movie can go both ways as there are many times where the characters do bring the attraction of people to themselves and also many times where people are attracted to them. The public in this movie is generally more intertwined with the actions of the characters as a result of the more close nature of being in a busy downtown.

張惠妹

Race and the Road Movie

How are sisterhood and loyalty established?
In Thelma and Louise sisterhood and loyalty are established through the crimes that they commit. They grow closer on the road after the killing of Thelma's would be rapist, as they go through their various trials, robberies, and crimes. In Set it Off the loyalty is already established between the four women throughout their childhood and adult lives. In Set if Off the loyalty and sisterhood is broken down by the various thievery and robbery. They are constantly disagreeing and agrueing about how the job needs to be done and who is doing what. There is no clear leader in this group, where as Louise is clearly the leader in Thelma and Louise.

How are the landscapes different?
The scenery between both movies is as different as night and day. Thelma and Louise shows the natural beauty of the southern United States, It focuses on wideopen spaces and the freedom that the road has to offer these women. Set it Off focuses on the landscape of the inner city of Los Angles. The scenery is completely opposite that shown in Thelma and Louise. There are closed in spaces constantly surrounding these women and there is no clear road available to help set these women free from the problems that face them.

Thelma & Louise // Set It Off

In films Thelma & Louise and Set It Off, there is a common role with a common function. This role is a white male cop. The role is important in each film, both to help drive the action and to expand audience appeal with the male gaze theory. Men would presumably have a more difficult time relating to either film without some occurrence of gender or racial familiarity, and that is where the similarities begin for each of the role. In helping push forward the plot, the white male cop in each movie knows about the women in pursuit and knows their criminal histories. The women in each movie cannot escape this, and it contributes to the inability to escape for the sets of female fugitives - yet still motivates them further to try and break away. They represent the society the women are eluding, including the typical male authority. Ultimately, while showing compassion for the fugitives, the white male cop is still working toward fishing the women back to the society that they are trying to rebel against.

Though there is a very similar role in these two films, the landscape among them is quite different. The landscape in Thelma & Louise helps promote the freedom they are pursuing - the rural presence emphasizes open space and everything that comes with it. That includes a general path with less obstruction and a better opportunity to exercise their freedom. They get a vehicle with the top down, the wind across their face - a completely ideal road journey with the setting to ensure adrenaline. However in Set It Off, the landscape and setting hinders their freedom and mobility. Taking place in an urban environment rather than the rurality in Thelma & Louise, the women in Set It Off are more confined and cramped simply due to their location. There is physical noise throughout their surroundings, and their rebellion via banks and vehicles relies on that business, it depends on having people around to a certain degree. This restraint forces a different adrenaline rush than the women in Thelma & Louise receive from their landscape, and helps the movie take to different directions.

Set if Off

How is violence coded by gender and color?
In the film Thelma & Louise. violence is seen as a threat and not an actual action. Most often the threat of violence suffices for these white women and they only resort to real violence when it is actually necessary (the slaying of Harlan, the destruction of the truck driver's semi). For these white women, violence is also something that is not normal in their lives; it is not a common occurrence, which is a distinguishing characteristic from the black women in Set it Off. For the black women, they resort to violence as a means of getting stuff done and not just for self-defense. They use the threat of violence like Thelma and Louise do, but they are more likely to actually use it. While alarms were raised about the fact that (white) women in Thelma & Louise use violence, the same was not brought up of the portrayal of violence by black women in Set it Off. This violence may have been written off as typical of the gangsta genre and therefore it would not be a big deal to see violent women.

How does the role of the white cop function in the narrative?
It seems as though in both films the white cop is a catalyst for the endings of the film, particularly in Set it Off. While in both films the cop is the pursuer and his actions help drive the women in both films to act the way they do, in Set it Off there is a greater sense that it is his actions that cause the plot of the film to develop. He is entwined with many of the film's events and his ardent pursuit of the women cause the demise of all but one of them. He also does not seem to sincerely want to help the women, while the white cop in Thelma & Louise does seem to mean well. The cop in T&L seems more like a father figure than the apparent oppressor that is the white cop in Set it Off.

White Cops and Sisterhood

“By courageously looking, we defiantly declared: “Not only will I stare. I want my look to change reality.� Even in the worse circumstances of domination, the ability to manipulate one’s gaze in the face of structures of domination that would contain it, opens up the possibility of agency.�
- Jones, The Feminism and Visual Culture Reader

The white cop in both Set It Off and Thelma & Louise plays a vital role in the narrative. Both Hal and Detective Strode see more than other cops do in the potential of the case, advancing the narrative by following their instincts and not dropping the case as others would have (such as the black cop in Set It Off). After seeing what they have caused, evidenced in the grandiose chase scenes of both films, Hal and Detective Strode want to save the girls, feeling as though they know them (which Louise refutes on the phone with Hal, and Frankie displays in the standoff scene). These men also lose their temper on the people who do not want to save these women and are treating them like the convicts they are. Both men shout out in anguish several times throughout the chases, commanding their peers not to shoot.

I also found it interesting that both men who initially started the case were there for the finish, given the intensity of the crimes of both sets of women. Hal is portrayed as a more emphatic person of smaller build, as opposed to the muscular Strode, who obviously was meant to be portrayed as the former army man, a perfect representation of the “system�. Set It Off contains more of a “look away� from blacks by whites; the police consistently look away from the black women, whether they are mourning, blowing up, or dying. This does not take place in Thelma and Louise: in fact, Hal runs after them, looking the whole time the women projectile off the Grand Canyon. This could be due to the racial differences in the characters. Strode also (uncharacteristically) lets Stony go, what we can assume Hal would have done given the opportunity.

Sisterhood and Loyalty are developed through very different means in Set It Off and Thelma & Louise. In Set It Off, sisterhood is developed from the women being the same race, socio-economic status, and being from the same hood. These are all displayed when the women are getting high on the roof – they share common experiences, slang, jobs, and activities. They have all reached their financial and emotional breaking points simultaneously (aside from Cleo, who wants to do it for fun). The Godfather scene develops the family atmosphere and lets us know that these women are not hardened criminals. The concern these women have for each other and the true sisterhood is established in the ending, when Stony does not back out of the final bank robbery, and when Cleo lets Frankie and Stony go with the money. In both of these situations, the women truly care about each other, sacrificing themselves for the good of the whole (their sisters). Sisterhood seemed to be established more easily in Set It Off, possibly because of my perceptions of race.

Thelma and Louise gain sisterhood mostly because Louise saved Thelma from Harlan, the rapist, and freed her from her mundane life. When Thelma loses Louise’s money to J.D., she gets it back as an obligation to Louise, who has done so much for her. The fact that Thelma is guilty of nothing, yet continues with Louise on the journey is key – she does not have to be on the run, but chooses to with Louise because she feels a bond and loyalty. The ending is the ultimate display of sisterhood, choosing to go out together, not sacrificing one to the police. The sisterhood is not as obvious until this point.

Cars and Policemen

The landscapes in “Set It Off� and “Thelma and Louise� are differentiated by the main characters access to open space or safe space. One of the spaces these very different groups of women outlaws have is their cars. Thelma and Louise’s car belongs to them. It is a convertible and offers them access to a sense of freedom – wind in their hair, sun on their faces – that the women in “Set it Off� cannot access from their hydraulic-powered souped-up car or from the variety of stolen SUVs they use for their crime sprees. At the very end of the film after her three compatriots are dead Stony escapes via a bus to Mexico. Once there she sets off in a red open-top jeep and only at that point does she have access to the kind of road-freedom that Thelma and Louise have had throughout their entire adventure. Additionally throughout “Set It Off� the landscape that these characters work and live in is dark, cramped, and dirty (with the exception of Stony’s rich boyfriend’s apartment. Although they may leave these spaces for periods of time they always must return “home.� Thelma and Louise have escaped from their homes and never return.

The white (male) cop functions in each movie to act as a sort of “big brother� figure. He knows the illegal things the women have done, he intuits why they are acting outside the law. He presents a form of compassion or empathy for their situations and yet he is dedicated to bringing the women back within the confines of the male-regulated justice system and stopping their flights to freedom. This white cop has never been in the situation any of the women have been in and yet he is portrayed as knowing the best thing for them to do. Who is to say that in one of their situations he would not have behaved in a similarly unlawful way? But that is not a possibility in either “Set It Off� or “Thelma and Louise.� The white male cop also gives the film’s viewer an alternative to identifying with the women heroines. By being sympathetic to the women’s plights he is accessible to the audience as a possible friend to the women, someone to cheer for and hope he is able to help the women out of their situations. But does this potential identification with a character apart from the fugitive women defeat the righteousness of their struggle to escape?

Thelma & Louise and Set if Off Face Off

Auto-mobility achieved in the films Thelma & Louise and Set it Off are distinctly different from one another. In Thelma & Louise, Louise already owns her own car and theoretical has the opportunity to come and go when ever she pleases; she has this privilege there are just other life factors that prevent her from doing so. In the film Set it Off , however, only one of the characters out of the group of the four main women has a car and as one of the men points out in the movie is not even considered a real car because of it's condition. In order for the four friends to achieve auto-mobility they must steal cars in order to do so. Even in the end Jada Pinkett Smith's character makes escapes the police on a bus and doesn't achieve her own auto-mobility until she has reached Mexico.

The justification of outlaw status in Thelma & Louise and Set if Off are not as dissimilar as auto-mobility is. I think in both films the outlaw status is triggered by society and escalated with the involvement of law enforcement. In Thelma & Louise the societal idea or notion that women cannot be raped if they were leading a man on caused Louise to kill the man attempting to rape Thelma and sparks their outlaw statues. As the law enforcement becomes involved the two friends are forced to rob a store for money, put a police officer in the trunk of his car, and blow a semi truck to survive; which all leads them to increase their outlaw statues.

In Set it Off there is a similar pattern to achieving outlaw statues as their is in Thelma & Louise. Each of the four friends find robbing a bank to be the only answers to their problems that they have been dealt with from society. Stony is left to provide for her brother after her parents die at a young age, Cleo is discriminated against for her sexual orientation, Frankie loses her job at bank based on the ethnicity, and T.T. struggles as a single mother and from the welfare system. All for of these women are put into a position where their is no opportunity to advance their quality of life because of their race, gender, and class; all of which they had no control over. When the women decide to take action by robbing a bank their are forced to remain outlaws when they have to rob another bank because their boss stole their money. With the the law enforcement after them they have not choice but to remain outlaws or accept another fate that would be worse than their lives previously, which is also reflected in the ending of Thelma & Louise.

Set it Offffffffffffffffffff

I believe that the role of the white cop plays on both white guilt and an attempt to possibly place the view in identifying him. The white viewer possibly doesn't understand what these black ladies are doing. We know it is wrong that they are knocking over these banks, but we also think we know why they are doing it. The white cop allows for some escape and placating white guilt. In Thelma and Louise, this is much more simple in that the cop isn't coded in race, but in the feminine.

The landscapes in the two films are drastically different. One is urban and one is rural. One is constrained by the city, the people, the urban life, and one is set free in the wide open spaces, the lack of interference, the extreme extent of mobility. The only shot we even see in Set it Off that can resemble Thelma and Louise is the shot from the helicopter at the end when the women are being chased. Even then, this shot shows how they are constrained to the highway, being directed/channeled, to their end.

March 29, 2008

Set It Off Instructions

Select any two of the following questions to compare Set It Off and Thelma and Louise. In addressing these two questions, share your ideas on how you see race, sexuality, class, and gender inscribed in the differences between these two films. Try to select different questions or a different angle on the questions that have already been discussed by other students on your blog.

How are sisterhood and loyalty established?
How is outlaw status justified?
How is the road as a symbol of freedom accessed?
How is “leaving normal� or the quest narrativized?
How is auto-mobility achieved?
How is violence coded by gender and color?
How are the landscapes different?
How does the role of the white cop function in the narrative?
How are freedom and the road confounded in each film?
How are the endings similar and different?
How does identification for the spectator work in each of these films?
Why is “Set it Off� a road movie?

Set It Off vs. Thelma and Louise

Set It Off vs. Thelma and Louise

1. How is sisterhood and loyalty established?
The women knowing each other since grade school and experiencing life’s heartaches and triumphs together establishes the sisterhood in Set If Off. The loyalty is established based on the women showing support to one another through their various heartaches and triumphs.
In Thelma and Louise, the two women established their sisterhood through their common bond of controlling men, restricting them from their desired adventures. The women established loyalty among one another by supporting each other through out their lives and actions. Louise supported Thelma by protecting her from a potential rape and accepting to live with what she had done.

8. How does the role of the white cop function in the narrative?
In Set It Off, the white cop is seen as the superior character in every scene he is in, causing the women to be inferior. The white cop also seems to enhance the ladies desires to get away and escape, which leads to the road journey. The white cop does this by being threatening and suffocating on the women’s space. This is very similar to the white cop in Thelma and Louise. The white cop in Thelma and Louise is also shown as superior because he represents the law and the termination of the women’s freedom, showing the women to be inferior when they are in a scene with him. When the women are not in a scene with the white cop, they act superior, similar to the female dominated scenes in Set It Off. The white cop in Thelma and Louise also seems to enhance the ladies desires to escape from the male dominated world they come from because they know that the white cop would be everything their husbands and boyfriends are: controlling and restricting.

March 11, 2008

Betray Feminism-hotel scene

I wrote a much more detailed response originally, but when I hit "save" something said the page could not be displayed, and when I tried to go back my entire response was gone and had not been saved.

First of all, feminism to me is the belief in equal rights and treatment of men and women. Both men and women may be "feminists" as well, it is not strictly limited to women.

In "Thelma and Louise," the scene where the two women return to the hotel room to find JD and their money missing is when this film betrays feminism for me. The women wouldn't be on the road if it weren't for their longing to have their men appreciate and miss them because they are gone. They also wouldn't have the money if it weren't for Jimmy's help. Although Thelma stands up to her husband, Daryl, earlier on the phone, she sleeps with JD and this "carelessness" and willingness to trust strange men so easily results in her first being nearly raped and then robbed within 24 hours. The entire plot of the movie can be contributed to men's control over women, and the entire conflict and climax of the film can be contributed to women's "too nice" personalities. Although it can be argued that the women recover from this incident that leaves the usually strong Louise sobbing on the ground, it is men who are chasing them, and it is men who are lined up behind them when the women continue to drive to their own deaths. The conclusion of the film shows that the 2 women may not have given into "a man's world" but they also end up dead. Not a very liberating situation. I think the hotel room scene is the most important turning point in the film, when the audience realizes unless they submit to men it is going to be all downhill from there.

March 10, 2008

Thelma and Louise!

Oh feminism. So does this movie about two women escaping from their overwhelming male counterparts represent how a girl should live or does it represent the exact opposite? Questions, questions I say. First we need a definition of feminism. For me personally, I believe that if someone is a feminist, they believe women are being oppressed by males and are being treated and looked upon unfairly. They believe being a woman is the best thing in the world and that they (we) should have as many rights as men and that they (we) can do anything a man can do. Except shoot shotguns. Women aren't the best at that most of the time. Anyways, considering this, what type of film is Thelma and Louise? I think it has very little to do with feminism. They never feel or show that they feel men are superior to them, except at the beginning when Thelma's in the kitchen, and they never seem to let guys walk over them. This film I think is more about two ladies going out into the world and realizing what it's really about. The fact that they go to bars, shoot people, rob stores, and drive off a cliff shows they are fearless and ready for the world. If this was a feminist film, they would be fighting against the men and talking about how held down they feel. This was an uplifting movie for anyone, male or female, because the message (for me at least) was do what you want with your life. It's yours. Be yourself, do what you want, and be smart about every decision you make. I do think, though, that this is a great film to put in a class like this because it sends out such a great message that can relate to feminists. I loved every move they made as they were smarter than hell and I wish I had the guts to do the same thing. They finally lived their lives and explored the world and found out who they really were (apparently Thelma's a natural robber:) ) and I give them mad props for that.

Thelma and Louise

I don't think that the film betrays feminism, it rather illuminates the entrapment of women by society. Through the release of Thelma, and the trap that Louise could not escape, the film depicts the escape of the two women from the laws and expectations of society, but also their inability to escape from the consequences of that escape. Men are in the background for most of the film, but their actions dictate the turns in the road for the two women on the run. Although there is a glimpse of 'female gaze' with Brad Pitt, the film both empowers and disenfranchises the women on the road.

Thelma & Louise with respect to femenism

I don't believe that the film or characters Thelma & Louise were a betrayal to feminism, nor was their journey as a whole. These women don't need to be perfect to empower women as a group, and they shouldn't need to do anything so very special to do good for feminism in general. Society must acknowledge gender equality for feminism to make a powerful statement, and what these women did are things that any woman or man could do. Though they were running from problems, getting into trouble, or even coming close to getting assaulted, these are things that can happen to ANY person, and have happened to both men and women through history - both in cinematic history and in reality.

Women and men aren't the same, they should simply be treated with equality. In this film, the women are treated by authorities as typical men would be treated, and as typical women should be treated doing the same thing. They experienced some things that typical men might not experience, such as when someone was trying to rape Thelma. Usually this won't happen to a guy, but it has before. The man obviously wasn't respectful of any sort of equality - and that injustice happens very often - Thelma and Louise, nor the makers of the film are being anti-feminist, they are being real. Thelma and Louise put themselves on par with actions usually thought of by men, that women historically (and factually) haven't been as prone to do. After getting more experience with a violent life on the road, the two women become much more comfortable with their actions.

I don't believe this film betrayed feminism in the least. Though they made some stupid decisions and were mistreated by others, those are things that happen frequently in life, for men or women. Feminism doesn't strive for perfection among women, it strives for equality - something that Thelma & Louise displayed through the film.

Feminism

I think that Thelma and Louise abandoned feminism simply by being stupid and committing one crime after the next and not learning from their mistakes. I believe that feminism is a movement for females to be treated as equal to men. Thelma and Louise were treated badly by men, but instead of logically taking care of their situations they went on a crime spree that eventually led to their demise. Like there was nothing better out there for them. It was a little frustrating watching them make one wrong decision after the next. Thelma completely abandoned feminsim in the beginning of the movie as well. I saw her as anything but a strong woman. I am suprised that she actually left her husband to go on the trip with Louise in the first place.

Thelma && Louise

Feminism is concerned with gender inequalities and equal rights for individuals amidst multiple kinds of social, cultural and political turbulence. A feminist can be any sort of backer for these universal concerns (intensity levels may very). Side note: Feminism doesn’t always have to be the FIGHT for equality. Too many people in this world see feminists as high-pitched, eccentric activists with hateful motives.

I suppose that after watching the film “Thelma and Louise� the viewer has a chance to reflect on how the women handled the initial incident, evaluated the circumstances and gradually allow the rest of the unfortunate episodes to evolve before them. The lack of active involvement on both Thelma and Louise’s part leads the viewer to believe that they betrayed the means of feminism.

After what happens to the both of them just as the vacation was kicking off, they run away seeming to be searching for something to rationalize two lifetimes worth of betrayal by men. We first get a taste of this escaping behavior when Louise shoots the man who violated Thelma in the parking lot at the bar. This scene is followed up by moments of Thelma and Louise driving aimlessly in the car; both women trying to comprehend what has just happen. As the journey continues and they wind up in even thicker misfortune, we come to the conclusion that it’s both Thelma and Louise fleeing from--honestly--everything.

Betrayal of Feminism

In the very begininning of the movie we see Thelma at home with her husband and Louise at the diner where she works. Thelma is the steriotypical "weak" woman. Thelma feels the need to ask for permission from her husband but is too frightened. She has no strength of character, person, or mind. Louise is the opposite, manly to the greatest degree she has no kind of feminine charm about her. She is a man. As the movie progresses Thelma loses her weakness, but in this she also becomes manish. Her womanhood does not stay with her, and even in this new male state she hasn't the judgement to make good decisions. Steriotypically speaking she has the balls of a man without his brains.

An effective feminine portrayal would look very differently. Feminism means that women are equal to men, especially in a mental capacity, but it doesn't mean they are the same. A feminist can wear a dress, be kind, be beautiful, but she must have strength. All women must have strength in order to confront the obstacles we face due to our gender. Louise appears to have strength but it later is discovered that it is just a coverup, Thelma lacks strength but even when she gains it she is unequal in mental capacity. These two women are failures, allowing themselves to be put in bad places and making unwise and often unruly decisions.

Display of Feminism by Thelma and Louise

My definition of feminism is the belief that there should be equality between men and women in every setting/situation. I think feminism was portrayed well in Thelma and Louise. Some scenes that highlight their betrayal of feminism include: smoking and drinking at the bar/restaurant, carrying guns, robbing the convenient store, arresting a cop, and breaking the law in every possible way. In other words, they were doing it like men. Thelma and Louise broke all the stereotypical mold of how a woman should act in society. It is hard to just use one scene from the movie because they all intertwine, especially all the ones regarding the gun that started it all. I felt the gun had a huge influence on their change/development throughout the movie. When they first interacted with Thelma’s husband’s gun there was a sense of fear and ignorance. Even though Louise was more knowledgeable about the gun she wanted nothing to do with it. Later in the movie when Thelma was going to be raped the gun was used for the first time without hesitation. They panicked and ran after the shot was fired but they did not regret shooting the guy. The second time the gun was being used was to rob the convenient store, and it shows how much Thelma has changed in the way she held that gun with confidence. From this point on they have changed, they were using the guns like professionals; they even stole guns from the cop. They then set out to teach disrespectful men a lesson. As the movie progresses I think it really shows their belief on equality, and people (the police) started to treat them no difference than men who break the law. Thelma and Louise really set out on their road trip feeling like they were less than men (Thelma feeling like she had to ask for permission) but by the end of the movie they were looking/demanding for equality (Thelma no longer cared what her husband thought). I enjoyed this movie the most out of all the ones we have watched in class.

Thelma and Louise the anti-feminists

When considering Thelma and Louise through a feministic lens it is interesting to take note of how women are being represented the film. All throughout the film I as an audience member am able to feel the presence of the male gaze. Both Thelma and Louise are presented as two women exhibiting a sense of uncertainty and the lack of knowledge in how to regain control of their lives when men are absent.

The struggle that Thelma goes through during the course of the film is reaching the realization that men are not a necessity. When both she and Louise stop at a local bar while on the road she immediately focuses her attention on Harland. Thelma does not recognize this journey as one that will not only allow her to break free of the ties that bound her to her husband but also a way in which she can stand free on her own and revisit that strength that she possesses in being a women. This is exhibited with Thelma’s interaction with Brad Pitt’s character. Knowing nothing about this mysterious man other than the fact that he is attractive and good with words she allows herself to fall into his trap. Even after he confesses his illegal behavior she still is unable to break the power that he has over her.

The bar scene suggests that the characters themselves possess an anti-feminist belief. After Louise takes care of Harland she claims that reporting to the police is not an option, no one will believe that Thelma was raped after taking into consideration her closeness with him at the bar. After taking into consideration the hardship that Louise experienced in Texas she is unable to view society through a feminist mentality, relying on authority to recognize violence towards women as a significant issue that must be acknowledged. She understands that women even during the late 80s, early 90s are viewed as inferior beings and the feminist ideology is continuously being put into question.

Thelma and Louise

Feminism is the movement to achieve gender equality in terms of rights and opportunities. Feminism is not women striving to be equal to men. We want to be different, but on the same playing field. I, for one, do not want to be compared to a man.
In the film Thelma and Louise, many restrictions to women are broken, but they are unable to break free and define feminism. Instead, their entire journey is a betrayal to feminism. From the very beginning of the film, Thelma and Louise are placed into positions stereotypically held by women, a waitress and a homemaker. Until the very end, they are unable to shed themselves of these "womanly" roles. Louise is constantly mothering, telling Thelma what she can and cannot do, like order a drink. Thelma can't even leave for the trip without asking permission from her husband, and when she neglects to do this, he yells at her. Once they have set out on their "liberating" road trip, they don't last a day without being shoved back down into anti-feminist positions. Harlen sexually and physically abuses Thelma, proving that women are not safe on the road. Thelma and Louise rely on Jimmy at one point for money. Louise loses independence and resorts to having him get them money. Once the money is stolen by J.D., they learn to acquire it on their own, thanks to J.D.'s teachings. Their crimes are made comical. I was laughing watching Thelma pull of the robbery. Thelma and Louise are only a baby step into women's freedom and feminism in films. Many of their actions above show that they still rely on men for subsistence and that they could not have made it as far as they did without men.

Thelma & Louise

“…feminism has to do with responsibility, equality, sensitivity, understanding…� (Sturken 11)

My definition of feminism is the equality of both sexes within the social standards. In the film Thelma & Louise I believe that they do not betray feminism. It seems like the two characters in the film were trying to show that women can be capable of becoming outlaws. During their journey it is possible that Thelma and Louise to develop a female friendship with one another.
They first become outlaws when Louise kills a man who was arrogant and tried to rape Thelma. Throughout the film they tried to show that they are capable of using a gun, a sign in which it is usually masculine. In the film Hal and the other men were shocked. They did not know that she was capable of such a situation. The men were even shocked when Thelma robbed the store, and did not think it was capable that she could do a thing like that either. Throughout the film Hal was trying to understand the two women, such as when he tells Louise on the phone that he knew what had happened to her in Texas. They were always waiting on the women to call. Thelma and Louise kind of changed that perspective as Hal and the other men were waiting on the women for a change.

Betrayal of Feminism

"Women either pay dearly for their openmindedness toward men or reject men totally." -- Elayne Rapping (Hollywood Sets the Terms of the Debate in Cineaste, Dec. 1991)

One could argue that Thelma and Louise (1991) betrays feminism on the highest level. In my view of feminism, the movement is about women having an equal standing on the playing field of life (aka: equality and equal rights with men). This film could have been a landmark for feminism had it taken the time to flesh out the characters to the degree that we see of their male counterparts in other films of the road and/or action film [i.e.: we were presented with more depth about James Bond's motivations in Casino Royale (2006)].

Thelma and Louise (1991) presents women as relatively binary characters (as Rapping points out) who are either completely unwilling to trust their male counterparts (Louise) or jump right into bed with one mere hours after facing the trauma of nearly being raped (Thelma). Either way, the actions of the characters seem disingenuous and hollow when subjected to any depth of scrutiny.

Their actions (the lack of emotional exploration after the near rape of Thelma and the killing of Harlan) follow the typical pattern set up for audiences by the Hollywood machine: That female characters (despite being the titular characters) are not important enough to provide adequate personality depth and realistic motivations. It would have been far more realistic and true to the character to show some of the emotional tumult associated with the attempted rape by and subsequent killing of Harlan, which is a sequence of events that would seemingly dog most people. But, no, the audience is shown one sequence of shots in which Louise and Thelma brood over the events, and relatively little heed is given to the emotional consequences of the events throughout the rest of the film (the legal consequences yes, but the emotional ones...definitely not).

Then Thelma, despite nearly being horribly violated by a male stranger, picks up and and has sex with a better looking male stranger (J.D.) in what appears to be less than 48 hours of the attack by Harlan. I can't think of a single women who would be comfortable with doing that. But, Thelma participates in a risky sexual act in order to assure audiences that "all is well" and "normalcy of an active libido can be found after attempted rape".

No, these women are presented as being merely shallow and unidimensional, so audience members of both genders can relate (thus satisfying the dominant 'male gaze' to which audiences are accustomed), thus making this film one that betrays the spirit of feminism.

Betrayal to Feminism

Throughout history, women have not been viewed to be men's equals. Feminism has this oppresive history in mind as it attempts to bridge the gap that has been created between men and women. Not only is it trying to help men realize that women are their equals, but is also helping women to believe that they should be treated as such. It is also a way to help women be free of the idea that they have to be dependent on men. For the most part, Thelma & Louise tries to portray this concept, but it could be argued that feminism is betrayed at certain points in the film.
One point in particular where I saw feminism being betrayed was Louise's reliance on her boyfriend Jimmy. Whereas Thelma took matters into her own hands to obtain money for them, Louise called Jimmy in desperate need of money. Her whole plan of escape revolves around him sending the money to her. By turning to him, she is making herself helpless and her entire future depends on this man. On top of that, he does not even listen to her when she tells him not to come meet her. He clearly thinks he knows best, and perhaps does not think of her as his equal. It is because Louise looked to a man in her moment of vulnerability that makes this movie a slight betrayal to feminism.

Feminism Can Include Ass-kicking

Is anyone here thinking for themselves? Just because the question is "Does Thelma and Louise betray feminism?", that doesn't require that you answer yes.

1. The plot was entirely driven by women making their own decisions, advocating for themselves, and doing things that made them happy. In my version of feminism, it's a betrayal to judge other women (real or fictional) for decisions that you don't like. The incessant judgment by many of the other writers on this blog over Thelma's sexual decisions is anti-feminist and participates in our culture of slut-shaming. What happened to celebrating sexual power?

2. If this were billed as an action movie, or if we weren't watching it in this course, no one would think twice about the violence. Personally, I think it's an exaggerated version of what women wish they did when they get cat called on the street. I find it hard to believe that so few women in the class are willing to admit that they empathize with the anger, hurt, sadness, and lowness that you can feel when someone reduces you to your body parts.

3. This film isn't supposed to be and shouldn't be expected to be gender-equal. When films centered around men are gender-equal, then films from women should be, but until then, women film makers have the right to fight fire with fire. Putting down the power that these women exercise in the film on the basis that it isn't gender-equal is a double standard.

As the saying goes, I'll be post-feminism when we're post patriarchy. But until then, I reserve the right to want to punch someone out who tries to objectify and degrade me.

Betrayal Disguised as Empowering

I have come to believe that feminism is the idea of equality for both genders, not just women; while still setting forth positive and forward-moving actions. With that in mind, I think that the night at the hotel shows the betrayal of feminism, because both Thelma and Louise lose themselves in the moments with their respective male visitors. Thelma loses her inhibitions as J.D. recounts his days of robberies to her, without which she wouldn't have gotten the idea to rob a convenience store for money. She also wouldn't have been so careless to leave a thief in her room with Louise's money, which was careless and let down her friend. As strong as Louise starts out, she slowly lets her guard down when her boyfriend appears, with the promise of marriage. They then spend the night together, which seems to soften Louise's previously strong resolve. At the climax of the hotel scenes, I observed a very obvious role reversal between the women, when Louise breaks down upon discovery of the stolen money.

This is ovbiously not the only example of a bertayal of feminism, but there are so many examples roled into one "night". The film seems empowering as two women make a bonding trip across state lines; however their strong, aggressive, and sometimes violent personalities do not exemplify a positive and gender-equal film. The lead detective is even seen not as an equal to the women, but more passive and "traditionally" female by being soft on them and overly sensitive, instead of treating the two women like the fugitives that they are. Through out the film, the two women are constantly shown as aggressive and head-strong, and the most of the men they encounter become pawns in their journey until their death. Was it another punishment for taking their sisterly bonding onto the road? Perhaps.

Thelma and the betrayal of feminism

I have always thought of feminism as the push for women to be independent of men and/or male influence--not necessarily excluding men from the picture altogether, but knowing that women can do all the same things as men. With that in mind, the scene in Thelma and Louise where J.D. essentially teaches Thelma how to rob a convenience store, and the later one where Thelma goes out and follows his script almost verbatim seems to betray this sort of feminism. Without J.D.'s instruction (and, possibly, the confidence gained through her sexual encounter with him, as well), Thelma probably would have had no idea how to pull off an armed robbery, and would have continued to be the follower in her relationship with Louise, who, up until the robbery, was the leader and decision-maker for the entire trip. While the motel scene with J.D. was likely intended to be liberating or enlightening for Thelma, it only seems to show that she is dependent on men for guidance. Her preoccupation with men and her tendency to think the best of them betrays the independence that feminism should bring her--she wants to have fun on her trip with Louise, so she latches onto Harlan in the bar, leading to an attempted rape and Harlan's murder; she cannot have a fulfilling sexual experience without a man, J.D., showing her how; she could not pull off a robbery without J.D.'s instruction, etc.--and her later independence and feminist characterization is colored by the earlier influence of men.

Blame the rapist

Feminism is the term I use to name my entire ideological and political belief system. It is based on the simple idea that everyone should have a fair, and equal shot at having a good life. There are in society many hierarchies and norms that constrain different people's lives in different ways; and these should all be dismantled. So my feminism advocates for things like the equal treatment of men and women, but also encompasses ideas about the unfairness of the prison system, trade systems like NAFTA, issues around all aspects of religion, and so on.

Feminism was betrayed in various, perhaps minor, ways in the movie; though I am resistant to use the word betray. One importatn example occurs towards the beginning of the movie, after the rape and killing of the rapists. Thelma and Louise are at a diner trying to decide what they should do. Thelma suggests going to the cops and explaining the whole situation. Louise's response is that they can't do that because Thelma had been dancing seductively with that man.

Their conversation ends at that, with Louise sounding as if she were castigating Thelma for her actions. This conversation implies that Thelma was at fault, to some extent. She brought on herself, by cozying up to that man, dancing with him and being flirtatious. Later on in the movie, Thelma and Louise, while talking about the event, do express that it is the police and those around them that would condemn Thelma to being guilty for the assault by that man. It is the police and others that won't believe their word because Thelma was willingly interacting and flirting with that man.

The problem really lies in the first conversation about the rape. That the narrative would even imply that it was Thelma's fault is utterly insulting and quite preposterous. It is also very dangerous, considering that these views of a woman asking for it are still very common in our society and our discourse. The movie could have done a better job of pointing out and criticizing the view that women are to blame for assaults and rapes. Though, it is understandable that the story points out how the people in society might blame Thelma for her part in the assault. The movie could have made an obvious and clear statement about the horribleness of this type of thought, and its effect.

Thelma and Louise

Feminist is someone (any sex or gender) that believes in the equality of women and men. Feminism is the act of advocating for women’s rights in social, political, and economic terms. I also think that it includes the history of Feminists and their movements, theories, etc.

In “Thelma and Louise� Feminism is betrayed in a couple of ways but the biggest way that I think it is betrayed is through the actions that the women take throughout the film The women are out to find a way to justify the reasons they were betrayed by men. They end up becoming violent and destructive It seems that they are just releasing some anger and rage that has been built up, they are not constructively finding a way to change and overcome their upsets.

I do think this is a let down to Feminism because the women are not strong, conscious, and intelligent models of Feminists. They end up out of control and impulsive, which hasn’t gotten us anywhere. Yes, they are “doing� acts which seem to portray them having power, and they are definitely making statements, but they aren’t doing it in a manner that will evoke change, men are still going to think of them the same way, as crazy, out of control women, who can’t handle their emotions.

March 9, 2008

Are they really free?

I define feminism as a movement that not only seeks to create a world where men and women are equal, but also where everyone is equal, regardless of societal status, gender, or race. Equality is the main theme of feminism, but many people think is only focuses on women.

I believe that Thelma and Louise betrays this idea of feminism. While the women are on the road and appear to be free, they are still being controlled by rape by men, by their husbands and boyfriends, and by the male police officer. It is because of rape that the two women take to the open road. If a man hadn't stepped in, none of it would have ever happened. Louise seems to be very affected by her rape experience in Texas long after it happened. It still had power over her. Thelma seeks male attention even after she breaks free of her husband's control and ends up getting taken advantage of again. When she is forcing the police officer into the back of the police car she says, “Be nice to your wife, my husband wasn't nice to me and look how I turned out.� She basically gives her husband credit for her new freedom. The only one to hopes to clear their names is a male police officer. We never see any women in the film with strong political or governmental authority. I do not believe that Thelma and Louise are therefore equal. No character comes to a realization of the oppression of women from this film and from the actions of either woman. It seems as if life will simply go on without them. Louise often tells Thelma that she needs to shut up or stop being so open. There is still oppression even within the relationship of the two women. They encourage each other to adhere silence. The only way that Thelma and Louise can truly be free is to kill themselves and I don't think that's much of a liberation.

Thelma and Louise

Okay, I don't really know what Feminism is suppose to mean. But, I will tell you what I think it is actually suppose to be. Feminism is when a woman take a stance and takes pride in being a woman and the way she is. In today's world, I think when someone hears Feminism, it seems like a woman is saying that they are fighting for equality and is completely on the other side of the argument. However, I think feminsim means just being proud of however you are, as a woman.

Did Thelma and Louise go against feminsim?

I can't really tell you. Because in my definition of a feminism, it is taking pride in being a woman. And I believe that Thelma and Louise took pride in being a woman. So, in that terms- I don't think the film has betrayed the definition. I love the parts of the film, whenever a guy tries to make a woman look down, Thelma and Louise makes them feel sorry for their opinion. Because a woman is neither below nor above a man. So, I really liked the scene where they blow up the truck drivers truck because he didn't say sorry for insulting woman and making woman a sexual object. And they made him pay for it. Also, I am so glad that they decided to shoot that guy/ rapist. He deserved it.

Some might say that the film has gone against the term feminism, in terms of clothing. For example, clothings worn by Louise was always more of a manly style. But, I don't think that really matters. It does make Louise look a little like a Lesbian, because of the way she acts. Like strong and manly.

Also, if you hear someone is feminist these days. People ask, oh...she must be a lesbian. So, I don't think that only a lesbian can be a feminist or a gay can be a feminist. I think any one who takes pride in being a woman and carries herself well, is a feminist.

Overall, I liked the film.

Thelma and Louise

Thelma and Louise betrays feminism most explicitly in the scene where both Thelma and Louise "ruminate" over the money stolen by J.D. "Feminism" is an ideological position that attempts to champion sexual equality in the general terms terms of the social, political, economic, etc. The film masquerades as a feminist piece very often, but this particular instance deftly exposes its intellectual dishonesty. Thelma is portrayed here as absolutely naive and conceited, assuming that her recent sexual encounter with J.D. stemmed purely from her attractiveness and not realizing the seriousness of the situation--she's like a child. Louise, on the other hand, who seems more experienced and capable of making sound judgments, is reduced to a blithering mess of sobbing helplessness. It's not the showing of fallible characters that marks the crudeness of the film's "feminism," but the fact that the heroines are completely and utterly idiotic and incapable of, essentially, competing with a young man. J.D outplays the two both physically and mentally, and there is no underlying reason to suppose that the women should even be given the freedom to do as they wish. According to this scene alone, one would rightfully assume that women are inferior to men and that they basically botch every chance they get to escape. Ignoring the arguably immoral aggressiveness displayed by the women (towards men) in later scenes, the film has very few real-world connection to the values of feminism as it is commonly understood.

The strong and the brave

My definition of feminism is the fight for equality. Feminism has the fight for equality of sexes at the foresight of the battle. I believe that feminism at its core takes into the consideration of the equality for all, regardless of your sex, race, class, age, religion, sexuality, or ability. Feminism is concerned with social justice and all its pillars. Feminist activists understand the interconnectedness of oppression.

I believe that it depends on what eye you watch Thelma and Louise through. Thelma and Louise is a feminist film in my eyes because from the beginning Louise is determined to not let the men in her life hold her back. She sets the fire within Thelma and they take to the road. This interpretation job is not an easy one because of so many variable and views. Thelma and Louise despite their outlaw characteristics are portrayed at strong women, trying to break out of the mold. They do not want to follow the footsteps that so many of the women around them have already imprinted. The men in this movie are all in much more negative roles than the women. The women are taking control of their lives, despite the extreme actions and violent steps they take on their adventure. This is portrayed well in the last scene of the movie. When Thelma suggests that they do not get caught, they would rather fall to their deaths together than to let the police and their significant others have their way. These women are strong, witty, and brave. These are the type of women I look up to, though hopefully do not mimic through actions.

Because of the arguments I have made, I believe that Thelma and Louise does portray many aspects of true feminism. These women are fighting the daily oppressions they are feeling.

Betray? Let's not be so dramatic.

I think using the word betray is a bit overdramatic. There are certain aspects of the movie that do go against what I think of as feminism, but the overall attitude and theme of the movie seems in line with feminism to me. First, my definition of feminism includes the basics, like equality in the workplace and home. I also see feminism as a concept that affirms a human’s (woman’s) basic right to make her own choices and go her own way.

One scene that I think of as against the idea of feminism is in the beginning of the film, when Thelma and Louise are talking about getting ready to leave over the phone. Both women talk about Thelma asking Darryl for his permission for her to go away for the weekend with Louise. This part of the discussion isn’t filled with Louise’s usual sarcastic comments about and disdain for Thelma’s husband. Both women seem to accept the idea that she needs permission from him to take a little trip. Even Louise, who I see portrayed as fairly free from masculine influence.

A positive feminist view or not?

Thelma and Louise doesn't exacatally present feminism in the way that I usually think of it. However, I think that at the time the movie was released it presented a real break through in the way that people viewed women and their rights. Rape in the late 80's, early 90's wasn't usually thought of as a violation of women/s bodies or rights. Most people probably would have thought that Thelma was "asking for it" by dancing with Harlin for so close and for so long. By showing the violantion that rape actually involves in the case of Thelma, and the anger and hurt that it can perminantly cause in the case of Louise. I think that this awareness alone is a huge step forward for feminism in films, but that said there are parts of the movie that were not steps forward for feminism. Thelmas character does not protray a strong feminism example when after almost being raped she willingly sleeps with another strange man a few days later. Who while the intraction is mutal, betrayed and used her just like all the other men in her life have.

I Disagree With All Of You

"Thelma & Louise's ideological agenda has caused exceptionally polarized debate. The film has been variously interpreted as feminist manifesto (the heroine are ordinary women, driven to extraordinary ends by male oppression) and as profoundly anti-feminist (the heroines are dangerous phallic caricatures of the very macho violence they're supposedly protesting). Some critics have discerned a lesbian subtest (that final soul kiss at the abyss); others interpret this as a meaningful negation of feminine friendship that flies in the face of patriarchal authority. (Greenberg, P.20)

Feminism in my opinion can mean equality between men and women.

I believe this part of the Greenberg article was particularly useful in interpreting the various opinions that some people may have about the movies and contrasting them with others. It is my opinion that this film is the zenith of what feminism should be. The women are able to successfully define their own future and decide what they want to do. Initially, the women do have some trouble getting their feminist road defined. For example, in the first part of the film, Thelma was playing the devoting wife, asking what her husband wants, fixing his watch when he demands it, and cooing in his ear with comforting messages of ego-boosting vocabulary. Thelma leaves that idiot and them succumbs to the flirting diner patron, whatever his name was. To many audiences, this may seem as though it were a betrayal of what feminism should be. I view it differently. Louise although she seems as though she were the more rational of the twins, does not present herself as free from her temptations to the attention of males. Her finance was a temptation that could have made her go back to a typical woman role of being subservient housewife however, she decided to do what she wanted to do, not what she thought would be the most appropriate.

I believe that this particular film does not betray what feminism is. Perhaps it is because I am Asian. I believe that the women chose what they wanted to do and made choices based on what they felt would be best for themselves, not others for a change. Thelma may seem like a cheap tramp who flirts and does dirty things. However, American society believes that a woman should be pure and clean whether women want to be or not. Thelma was simply going against what society was telling her to do. Louise was similar with the way she teaches the men around her that women have a right to stand up for themselves and have the power to make their own decisions. Women are humans, not robots who are make decisions based on how they feel and want. Women sometimes fall to temptations and get back on the right track. This film shows women treating people the way they treat others. It should be exceptionally motivating and interesting.

張惠妹

The decision to turn outlaw

Thelma & Louise betrays feminism because Thelma and Louise do not act of their own volition but are driven into a downward plot spiral engaging in more and more lawless behavior only because of men. “The murder of the would-be rapist, the male aggressor, triggers a plunge into a romantic outlaw scenario.� (Cineaste Round Table Discussion, Dec. 1991, Vol. 18, no. 4. WebVISTA “Hollywood Sets the Terms of the Debate�) If feminism could be stated as the belief that regardless of gender people should be free to make choices and act of their own volition without discrimination or force then Thelma & Louise is not a feminist film. When Thelma and Louise set out on their original road trip they are doing it to get away from their male partners even if only for a day or two. However when Harlan attempts to rape Thelma and Louise shoots him they become outlaws because of their belief that no one will believe that their shooting was justified because of the social stigma that women who are hanging all over men on the dance floor are “asking for it.� If Thelma and Louise had decided to become outlaws then it would be a feminist film – women determining their own course without social interference because of their proscribed gender roles. However since Thelma and Louise had no desire to become outlaws at the start of the movie and are only made to become lawless because of their gender the film is not a feminist film. It was also directed by a man and how can you have a feminist film directed by a man?

Thelma & Louise: Feminism or no?

I believe Thelma and Louise presents feminism in a very blunt way. The way that they use the automobile as a thing of power in the video, and the way they talk to men or yell at them about the way they respond to women. I definitely thinks its a very common response for a feminist. The part of the film where Thelma shoots the guy that tries to rape Louise- she speaks to him with such anger and disgust, and she shoots him without even a second thought. Afterwards she seems to be shaken up but not regretting her decision. She felt he deserved it. And you can tell that she was driven by fear and understanding- she had experienced sexual assault and obviously is still not healed, and this comes out in the way she responds to the situation with Louise. She is an angry woman, and she has every right to be. That's feminism.

To me, feminism is an understanding that our world is structured around gender, it is the knowledge that we will receive certain treatment just because we are women, and being a woman will largely determine the path you will take in life. Being a feminist means you are committed to work towards a world where women are treated as equals, and working towards giving women a better life then they have today.

Does Thelma and Louise Describe Feminism?

"It would be easy to dismiss much of the debate about feminism and Thelma and Louise as a kind of anit-feminist backlash. But it was clearly more complex, in particular because many feminists were opposed to the film. The debate was rather over whose feminism the film represented, and the relationship of women to both anger and violence," (Sturken 11). I would describe feminism as the basic fight for equal rights. Feminists believe in the equality of the sexes. One sex should not be above another. There should be no supieriority or inferiority between the sexes. Feminists believe in a basic egalitarian society. I think that there are parts of Thelma and Louise that betray feminism and there are parts that don't. One point of the movie that proves feminism was a part of the movie was when Louise tells Harlen that when someone says no, they mean no. Just because someone is a woman doesn't mean that she shouldn't be heard. A point in the movie that betrays feminism is when there is the body shot of Thelma in her bikini. She is portrayed as a sexual object. We look at her as an object and nothing else, which is a step back from the feminist perspective. I think that this movie goes back and forth with what it was trying to portray but for its time, it was extremely influential.

Thelma and Louise: Betrayal of Feminism

To me, feminism represents the fight for equality between the sexes. It is the defiance of society’s gender ideals that were the norm until only a few decades ago. I think that it stands for women’s autonomy and the ability to live without relying on men. Although Thelma and Louise attempts to break from the typical road film, there are several aspects of the film that seem to betray feminism. For example, throughout the film, the women play the role of the victims. One major aspect of the film that betrays feminism is found in the response given by Louise’s to Thelma’s reactions to the attempted rape. Thelma looks to her for reassurance after the incident, asking whether Louise thought that it was her fault. Louise doesn’t reassure her at all, which leads viewers to believe that she partly thought it was her fault. This scene represents a major hurdle that women have had to overcome; that in incidences of rape, women are victims and are not at all responsible for what has happened to them. For this reason, this particular scene in Thelma and Louise dramatically betrays feminism, despite the film’s attempt to break from the typical road movie genre.

Running Away from Feminism

When I think of what the word feminism means my thoughts wonder to the women's liberation movement which began in the 60's and gained momentum with conscious raising. The movement stood for equality of all sexes and the right for women to choose how they want to live their lives and be able to seek self-fulfillment through establish relationships with other women instead of competing. I see feminism in the same way; equality for all to have choice, to be in control of their own life story. Many feminist praise the film Thelma and Louise for breaking gender roles and establishing a women's perspective. However, in light of the meaning behind feminism, I see the film more as Thelma and Louise running away from feminism and swapping gender roles with men only to never coming back.

In the beginning of the film, both Thelma and Louise are living lives they didn't want to chose, lives that provide them with fulfillment and a sense of purpose. When they attempt to do something by themselves by taking a weekend trip, they run into a man that is intent on causing harm. Louise responds with violence, as stereotyped in the male gender role, by shooting him. From that point on Thelma and Louise reject feminism and stay in the role of a male by fleeing the scene and becoming fugitives instead of reporting the rape to the police. I think the last scene in the film best displays their complete betrayal of feminism. It is the two of them up against the man (the fleet of police officers) and instead of fighting for feminism and the equality for women and take the easy way out by going off the cliff. If Thelma and Louise would have faced the police officers they may have been but in jail, but they could have taken the opportunity to be advocates for other women and create awareness of violence towards women. Some may see Thelma and Louise driving off the cliff as choosing self-fulfillment, but I see it more as choosing to let other women continue to be victims of men just as they had.

Feminists Thelma and Louise?

By definition, "Feminism" is the belief in the social, political and economic equality of the sexes. In Thelma and Louise, I don`t think there was ever a thought of being equal with th mankind. Au contraire, I would say "revenge" became their one motive on the road. Being betrayed by men, both women found an opportunity to get even with any men that did no treat them like ladies. It shows a big weakness since they never get even with the actual men that hurt them. Epecially for Thema, it was probably like a liberation since she`s been abused for so many years and called useless by her own husband.
By blowing up the "naughty" driver`s truck, they were of course giving him a lesson and teachiing him how he should treat and respect a woman. But let`s think about it; although they had all the right reasons to act in such a way, the fact tha feminism is the equality between men and women, will the reactions be the same if Thelma and Louise were men and the truck driver a woman?? I don`t think so. Their actions were driven more by revenge than equality or fairness.

Feminism at best?

If feminism truly is the search for equality of the sexes, Thelma and Louise have achieved this quest greatly. Around the time of their escapades, it was unthought of for women to be criminals, murderers, and in a sense, top dogs. They were the above the law throughout a lot of their journey, unable to be tracked and doing as they please. We finally see the equality when they are being chased by the police in the ending scene. The police seemed to be a little more lenient in the beginning because they were women and seemed to be a less dangerous. However, at the end, they used the same amount of force and threat that they would with a group of male criminals. It was even said that these women are extremely dangerous and should be treated as such despite their sex. In Thelma and Louise we see that women need to be treated equally for protection of people around the world.

Thelma and Louise

One scene that I believe betrays the feminism that many claim is inherent to the film is a scene after Harlan has been killed and Thelma and Louise are sitting in a restaurant/diner discussing what happened and what they are going to do. They start to argue and Thelma asks Louise if what had happened was her fault. Louise gives no answer and says nothing. The fact that Louise says nothing in response indicates that she believes that it is Thelma's fault. This is where feminism is betrayed. As I see it, feminism is a belief that women can act independent of and without reliance on men, and also that women are not the root of all problems and mistakes. Here Louise's lack of an answer differs from my idea of feminism because she disproves it by blaming Thelma for her rape, something which is very common in our society that always blames women for enticing men and "asking for it". She does not refute the idea that Thelma deserved what happened to her. This seems very antifeminist and not fitting with the general ideas of the film. There is a moment near the end of the film where it would have been appropriate for Louise to say that it is not Thelma's fault, but again she does not do what she should do and affirm the idea that Thelma is not to blame.

Thelma and J.D.: Betrayal at First Glance

“…Thelma and Louise seems to undercut, or perhaps complicate, much of its feminist critique […] her encounter with J.D. will in fact lead to her first fulfilling sexual experience […] he is the “sex object,� yet he instructs her, standing above her, in the how-to of being an outlaw […] the narrative has “taught� her through the authority of the male (Laderman 190).�

To me, feminism strives for female equality to men in all aspects of like (politically, economically, ect.). I believe it also has to do with how the female is represented in popular culture, with an emphasis on empowerment, and at times, females demonstrating traditionally “masculine� characteristics (strong, competitive, and dominant).

Though the 1991 film Thelma and Louise has strong feminist qualities, in several ways it presents a contradictory message. The specific scene (or relationship) I am choosing to bring out this betrayal of feminist ideology is that of Thelma and J.D.’s sexual experience. From the first encounter with J.D., Thelma is determined to have the object of her desire. When Thelma sees J.D. in the side mirror, she immediately begins doing herself up, going through the traditional female beautification for her man. Later in the bedroom, she is turned on by his rough, outlaw nature, which is seen as a negative (or unreal) characteristic for a woman to possess. J.D. “plays� robber for Thelma, and as Laderman points out, this is the model Thelma uses later when robbing the gas station – she makes up her mistake to Louise, but does so using the male (J.D.’s) model.

Intercut in the same scene is Louise and Jimmy’s more mature relationship. Louise takes a stronger approach to Jimmy’s advances, but uses the phrase “You get what you settle for,� and keeps Jimmy’s engagement ring, a symbol of being dominated or owned by a man.

This scene of the two women with their men brings their reliance/concern with men throughout the film to a head. This ultimately aids in their demise, as Jimmy and J.D. both give information to the police about their whereabouts, and J.D. forces Thelma to steal to regain their depleted funds, which also gives the police more information on their whereabouts and a crime to charge them with.

Men as Perpetrator/Solution

Thelma and Louise betrays feminism through the actions of Thelma. She is nearly raped by a man outside of a bar. The next day is begging Louise to let J.D. ride along with them, because she likes the way his butt looks. I find it very hard to believe that a woman who is violated, as Thelma was by Harlan, would be actively seeking another man so shortly after the incident. The fact that she sleeps with J.D. after Harlan's rape attempt and murder betrays feminism. Cooper says that Thelma's actions send a message that "the only thing an unhappy woman needs is good sex to make everything all right." Feminism is a concept which is supposed to unite and liberate women. Thelma's actions show that women are weak by themselves and dependent on men.

March 8, 2008

betrayal of feminism

When I think of feminism the first thing that comes to mind is female empowerment; the advocacy of women's rights and equality with men in social, political, and economic arenas. Although Thelma and Louise do embody characteristics of feminism throughout the film, one specific scene stands out as a betrayal to feminism. Thelma has just been almost brutally raped and has witnessed a murder, however she wants to pick up J.D., a strange man who appeals to her because of his nice rear end. The specific scene I'm speaking of is the hotel scene in which she invites J.D. in to spend the night and without a second thought, even after he tells her he is a bank robber, has sex with him. Thelma has just been the victim of sexual objectification and brutality, yet trusts a man she knows nothing about to come into her hotel room when she is completely alone. It is not only unrealistic, but a betrayal to feminism. Rape victims are often emotionally and physically scarred, certainly not willing to sleep with a stranger. It also puts into perspective ones perogative as a woman and the injustice of the legal system in such cases. Like Louise said, they couldn't go to the police because no one would believe them. Since Thelma was dancing with Harlan "cheek to cheek" that must have indicated that she somehow wanted or deserved it. Instead of standing up for her rights as a woman she turns to a man for pleasure and assurance. She even shows Louise a hickie on her neck the next morning at breakfast, a symbol of male dominance, as if she's proud of it. While it may have been a freeing moment for her character, one could most definitely view it as a betrayal of feminism.

Thelma and Louise Instructions

Does “Thelma and Louise� betray feminism? Build an argument in the affirmative using one scene from the film. Include your definition of “feminism� in your response.

March 3, 2008

Grace Lees share some things, but not all.

Before her trip, Grace Lee positions herself in opposition to a mass of indistinguishable Grace Lees. She sets out looking for an explanation of why they seem so similar, and to figure out if they really are, or what they have in common. She ends up showing us segments of the story of what it means to be an Asian American woman.

Director Grace Lee doesn't show us a sea of Grace Lees that are all the same, but she does bring them together as tellers of one larger narrative. They all struggle with the same stereotypes and with similar pressures from their peers, culture, and family. But the director Grace Lee makes a departure from old models of the common experience of women (such as the one seen in Searching for Angela Shelton), by highlighting individuality and difference within the female Asian American experience.

What she brings back, I suppose, is a sense community with other Asian American women, and also a renewed confidence in the individuality of these women and in the ability to reject the stereotype.

The Grace Lee's


The director of The Grace Lee Project tackles the question of "Are all of us alike?" She encounters several descriptions of Grace Lee's around the country, even the world, as "nice, smart, quiet..." I think this becomes more than a project about a name, it becomes a search of what it means to be an Asian American woman and what are the expections that follow that title. Although the director tackles a lot of self-issues, she also engages other Grace Lee's and represents their stories as well. I think that unlike the Searching For Angela Shelton documentary which searched for closure, The Grace Lee Project only ended on a note of knowing a little more about Asian American woman and how they are catogorized in society, and how the director herself felt about her own identity. There was no defined closure to the documentary, but Grace Lee showed that although Asian American women can fall into general categories (even a visual of what the "average" Grace Lee would look like), they are unique and all have different stories to tell. I thought this documentary did a much better job than Angela Shelton's of showing the viewer what these women truly meant to society, and what it meant to the director's own identity search.

Grace Lee

First of all, I preferred this movie much more than the Angela Shelton one. Because the Grace Lee movie doesn't just focus on Grace Lee, the filmmaker herself. This movie isn't like the previous one where all she says is this happened to me and just cries about it.

Grace Lee movie is great in a way that it doesn't focus on how a person is because of their name. This movie shows that you are not what your name describes but rather what you do and what you believe in. This movie is her journey in finding the different characteristics of Asian women that has the name Grace Lee, which is very common. Grace Lee beliefs are that the majority of the Grace Lee's are naiive, quiet, shy, asian, and very passive. However, through her journey she finds out that may be majority of them are like this, but they are like this for a choice and there are others Grace Lee who are wild, brave, and active. Like the Korean Lesbian activisit and that old lady who is a black activist movement. It is not only just Grace Lee's journey but also a journey where we find out that many sterotypes that are being used on asian american aren't always true.

The Grace Lee Project

Grace Lee began her project with a notion that a vast majority of Asian Americans (chosen via the common name Grace Lee) are all so very unfortunately alike. Through Grace Lee's journey, both in digital and physical respects, she seeks to find out if there is any universal truth to to these uncanny similarities.

Grace Lee begins her project by interviewing apparently random people she comes across, asking what they know about "Grace Lee." To her astonishment, they all respond with nearly identical responses (though we should keep in mind, the makers of this documentary get to choose what to include and exclude). All Grace Lees seemed to be quiet, smart, gentle, shy, etc. Grace was very unsatisfied with this result; she was concerned that every Asian-American Grace Lee was destined for the same path. Her response was to embark on her mission via the internet. Her digital beginning united Grace Lees from all over the world, sharing whatever they could with one another. Though Grace found some differences to spark her physical road journey, there were also a lot of confirmations of the identical responses that interviewees gave her about the Grace Lee that they knew, not coincidentally.

However, after bringing so many Grace Lees together as a group, our narrator realizes the best way to see vivid differences is to actually see the individuals. This is where she embarks on her physical road journey. On this path, she encounters several Grace Lees with very vivid differences. She finds a lesbian activist living outside the country, a very old woman helping an African-American movement and helping youths become active in society. Grace finds another Grace who is a pastor's wife, and another who is a pastor's kid. She finds a Grace who is still in school - a painter with a very dark imagination, who contrasts a great majority of her school and neighborhood. Grace Lee finds a Grace Lee who takes care of her family AND another she is helping out. When she was finding this Grace Lee's story, she tells us that she was so immersed in how great this was that she had completely forgotten about the name Grace Lee. Our narrator even hears of a Grace Lee who tried to set fire to her school.

There were so much more substance to each of these Asian-American women that she hadn't been able to receive while interviewing others and finding quick information posted online. Even a "normal" Grace Lee would have so much difference in her lifestyle or character from one to another, even if it doesn't shine through every day.

Through this, Grace Lee deconstructs the stereotypes about Asian-American women. Though there were often striking similarities, a lot of this obviously comes from having a comparable background - from ancestry down to their name, these women began with a lot in common. However when Grace Lee was able to take the time to get to know some of these women, she found that the brilliant differences among them generously outweighed any of the similarities. Simply because a group of women could find commonalities (that were often focused on by the general public - which frequently happens when people feel the need to group so many people together), that doesn't mean they were truly alike in the least. This was an important message that Grace Lee could take home from her journey. Her identity didn't need to match that of others simply because they shared certain characteristics, but every individual has their own path because they are their own person.

GRace Lee

The film maker Grace Lee uses her name as the stereotype of Asian-American women. She hopes to deconstruct this stereotype and prove that not all Grace Lees or Asian-American women are the same. She constructed interviews and discovered that almost all Grace Lees were described as “nice, smart, and quiet.� Are all Asian-American women like this? Is everyone the same? Why? These are the questions that film maker Grace wanted to answer. She uses her road trip by traveling all over the United States and even Korea to meet and know Grace Lees around the world. Unlike Angela Shelton, Grace used the camera herself and rarely appeared on screen. Her main focus were the stories of the Grace Lees that she met. I liked that she acknowledged the fact that many Grace Lees were most likely not listed in her searches. She poses the questions of who those women were and why they weren't listed.

When Grace Lee goes to Korea, she meets a Grace that was a lesbian activist, but later asked to be removed from the film because she is no longer an activist and does not wish to hurt her family. The film maker is very upset by this, but asks a wonderful question, Why isn't she allowed to be flawed? I agree with this. Not everyone is perfect and while we may not agree with her choice to adhere to other's opinions of her. The Activist Grace is allowed to make her own decisions.

I think the most important idea of this movie is to individualize the Grace Lees rather than group them together like in Angela Shelton. You have to think of life in terms of things you do, not the name you have. I think this also applies to the names that you are given by society, not just the birth name. One is given a name to define race, gender, and religion. But it still isn't about the names you are given but what you do as a person that defines you.

Deconstructing the Stereotype

In The Grace Lee Project, the director Grace Lee sets out to put a face to the other women who share her name. Lee feels that she is a unique and does not fit into the stereotypical mold of Asian American women. When most of her interviewees were asked to describe the Grace Lee they knew, descriptions included quiet, shy, intelligent, and nice. In an attempt to break the stereotype, Lee sets up a website to let the other Grace Lees come to her. To her disappointment, most of them qualified as a stereotypical Grace Lee. She had to search long and far to uncover what makes them different. She traveled as far away as Korea and also closely within California. Those Grace Lees that she met were allowed to tell their stories, and by taking a passive listening role, the director Lee was able to dig up the differences and personal stories that made each unique. One Grace was a lesbian activist, another was a pastor’s wife and mother, and yet another, a shelter for her abused friend. Externally, they may appear to be just another Grace Lee, but by hearing their stories, Lee discovers the differences. Lee learns to find comfort in their similarities, as if the truthful stereotypes were a common thread that bound them together. At the end of the movie, Grace Lee has come to accept the stereotype, knowing that there is always more behind it.

The Grace Lee Project

Grace Lee does a great job at decomposing the stereotypes about Asian American women in her film. She uses the camera and real people in society that she meets name Grace Lee to show the difference in how different these Grace Lees can be and they are not just the basic stereotypes of Grace Lees being, “quiet, nice, intelligent, has violin or piano lessons, their parents are immigrants, etc.� When she interviews the Grace Lee she meets, she lets them tell their story of themselves. It lets the audience know a little bit about all the Grace Lee she has met, and she can follow that by telling the viewers that these amazing people with identical names are all different with similarities being a nice addition to being a Grace Lee. Grace Lee herself begins by questioning if all Grace Lees are the same. As the film went on to the end of her journey she has a greater understanding that there are similarities that all the Grace Lees have in common, but there are also differences in each one of them she meets and that they each have amazing stories each one has shared with her. She treasures them all.

The Grace Lee Project

Grace Lee does a great job at decomposing the stereotypes about Asian American women in her film. She uses the camera and real people in society that she meets name Grace Lee to show the difference in how different these Grace Lees can be and they are not just the basic stereotypes of Grace Lees being, “quiet, nice, intelligent, has violin or piano lessons, their parents are immigrants, etc.� When she interviews the Grace Lee she meets, she lets them tell their story of themselves. It lets the audience know a little bit about all the Grace Lee she has met, and she can follow that by telling the viewers that these amazing people with identical names are all different with similarities being a nice addition to being a Grace Lee. Grace Lee herself begins by questioning if all Grace Lees are the same. As the film went on to the end of her journey she has a greater understanding that there are similarities that all the Grace Lees have in common, but there are also differences in each one of them she meets and that they each have amazing stories each one has shared with her. She treasures them all.

The Grace Lee Project

Grace Lee does a great job at decomposing the stereotypes about Asian American women in her film. She uses the camera and real people in society that she meets name Grace Lee to show the difference in how different these Grace Lees can be and they are not just the basic stereotypes of Grace Lees being, “quiet, nice, intelligent, has violin or piano lessons, their parents are immigrants, etc.� When she interviews the Grace Lee she meets, she lets them tell their story of themselves. It lets the audience know a little bit about all the Grace Lee she has met, and she can follow that by telling the viewers that these amazing people with identical names are all different with similarities being a nice addition to being a Grace Lee. Grace Lee herself begins by questioning if all Grace Lees are the same. As the film went on to the end of her journey she has a greater understanding that there are similarities that all the Grace Lees have in common, but there are also differences in each one of them she meets and that they each have amazing stories each one has shared with her. She treasures them all.

Deconstructing Grace Lee

The Grace Lee Project was a far more satisfying film about a woman's search for herself than our previous foray into the topic (the Angela Shelton Project). There were many differences between the two films, but most salient for this viewer was the organic way that the story was conveyed in Grace Lee, rather than watching Shelton seemingly stretch the story in order to have some conclusion. In other words, Grace Lee decided to take the time to listen, fete out the differences, and find the commonality where it existed, rather than trying to push the idea of commonality onto her interviewees (like someone trying to push a square peg through a round hole).

As to how Grace Lee (the filmmaker) deconstructed the stereotype of Asian-American women, I think this film both affirmed (on the surface) and blew away the stereotype. On her journey, Grace Lee found many women who share her name who do, on a surface level, fit the stereotype. Many were the petite, quiet achievers the stereotype boasts. So, if one were to stop examining the film on a superficial level, one could say that the film confirms the stereotype.

BUT, stereotypes are nothing more than surface generalizations -- so general (like a horoscope) that it can be moulded to fit around just about anybody. In searching for the other Grace Lees, filmmaker Grace Lee dug deeper, listening to the individual stories, finding many differences among her interviewees -- even amongst those who otherwise fit the Asian-American woman stereotype. She found a 17 year-old artist with a very non-traditional sense of humor and an 80+ year-old civil rights activist. If one stopped looking at the surface level, then both of these women might fit into the stereotype, but if one just digs a little deeper, one finds the glaring individuality that makes these women unique.

So, what filmmaker Grace Lee is saying about Grace Lees is that while many fit the stereotype, there are many differences just below the surface, and that each are beautiful, special, and unique, despite the common name. This general statement, and an overall feeling of sisterhood with her fellow Grace Lees about how each has gone through their own journey to find their individuality (and thus the commonality of their journeys) is what filmmaker Grace Lee (and the audience) brings home. We are all unique individuals -- just like everybody else. :-)


Grace Lee Grace Lee!

There are many reasons why people do the things they do when it comes to exploring the world around them and the people they are surrounded by. This Grace Lee project was the end result of a woman who was confident enough about herself that she could go out and see who else is out there and how life has effected them. She chose the name Grace Lee as it was her own and found out many positive and negative things. First, she found out that the majority of them were Asian, which didn't surprise her, and that there were so many stereotypes about them because of their race, examples being that they are smart, quiet, and nice. She found out that because of all these stereotypes that many of them happened to fit in, many of them were overlooked as unique people. She went out to find all these Graces to prove that many f them are unique and different, but at the same time she found out that many of them are the same. Through their similarities she could relate to them, but I think she was more interested in their differences and how they shaped each woman. There were a couple that stood out of the crowd, but to her dismay (I think she might've been a little disheartened) most of them were very similar to each other. Either way, she learned that stereotypes can be true to some extent, but not all the time. Everybody is different in either big ways or little ways and its those differences that set us apart in big groups of similarities. I think she was happy with her results as they were close to what she expected. This was a very interesting movie and it was a nice change compared to the one before it when all we heard about was one woman's search. This Grace Lee focused less on herself and more on everyone else, and I think that made a difference when it comes to the public and classroom response.

Is saying “Grace Lee� really meaning Asian American?

In The Grace Lee Project Grace Lee was determined to set out and find differences among all the Grace Lees. She went from being the only Grace Lee to everybody she knows knowing another Grace Lee. Not only do they have similar names, it seems as though they are all copies of one another in one way or another. After hearing what other people had to say about the Grace Lee that they knew, she felt like she did not fit most of their descriptions. She wanted to do a road trip that searches for others that also do not fit in those descriptions. I felt in a way she was searching for a similarity within the differences. She was looking for Grace Lees that did not fit the stereotype descriptions (the difference) like her (the similarity). It did not matter what city or state she was in the way people described a Grace Lee were the same, the typical Asian American. The Grace Lee Project revealed to others that Grace Lees/Asian Americans are not all the same, the stories that were told were all over the spectrum. Just like any other ethnicity, when just looking at the surface they are all alike. The background stories are never identical. The Grace Lee reporter did not fit the shy, quiet stereotype. The Grace Lee that was an activist broke out of all “Grace Lee� boundaries. The Grace Lee that helped her friend out of an abusive marriage was nothing like the others. Then at the end when each Grace Lee described how they want to be remembered, none of them were the same. I felt that Grace Lee (the film maker) really did chip away the similar layers between Asian American women throughout her road trip. I think she took home the message that even though all Grace Lees shared the same name they did not all share the same life/fate.

Who is Grace Lee?

Grace Lee uses her road trip to acknowledge the similiarities about many of the Grace Lee's but also to highlight their differences. She "didn't want to be interchangable". She first saught for proof that they weren't "super nice asians". She felt left out, as if she wasn't in this "sorority of super asians" but along the way she came to realize just how different the Grace Lees were. Though there were some common threads, each of them was an individual. Many of them had lived and grown up under this oppresive steriotype of perfection and even though it led some of them to stress (even one to burning up part of the school). Most of them realized the importance of developing their own identitiy outside of their Grace Lee construct. She realizes on her trip that they are all individuals, whether it is the Grace Lee Activist, Grace Lee Dark Art Specialist, or even the Grace Lee Pastor's wife. Though they maintain some of their "Grace Lee Characteristics" they have learned to be more than that. Llike Gollum they are "like two characters in one."

While these women have common experiences- even sharing an average of 3.5 yrs of piano lessons- they are each different. They are not stepford wives, they are strong women with backbones and this alliviates her fears. She brings back a sense of community and a real feeling that she should be happy to be amongst these Grace Lees. She has reestablished her sense of self.

Grace Lee

Grace Lee takes an unusual approach to finding the other Grace Lees. She puts up a website that allows them to come to her. I think this is a really important part of her journey to note, because she wasn't forcing herself on anyone; every conversation she had was completely voluntary. It really helped shape her story. She was less focused on the road getting her places. She started off saying that all Grace Lees were the same: nice, intelligent, and quiet. They also seemed to be forgetable. Grace Lee sets out to discover why she seems to be the "anti-Grace Lee" in this situation. However, the story becomes less and less about her with every other Grace Lee that she meets. I think that when she is done with her journey, she comes home with a better sense of Grace Lees all around the world. She realizes that she has met some very genuine women, and what sets the Grace Lees apart is their stories. Everyone has a different story, and the Grace Lees are not exceptions to this. They all have histories, families, and friends-- none of them are the same person.

Grace Lees Everywhere

Grace Lee set out on the road to find more Grace Lees and learn about them. She wanted to do this because she felt that she was just an ordinary individual. She began talking to individuals about the Grace Lees that they knew. The overlying theme on all of the Grace Lees that people knew where that Grace Lee was a quiet, studious girl, who played the piano or violin. These stereotypes represent not just Grace Lee but all the Asian-Americans out there. Grace knows that there has to be something spectacular about one of these women so she keeps searching. She meets some of the Grace Lees and hears their stories. It turns out that she discovers amazing things about these women. Yes its true that many of them indeed were brought up to play the piano or were extremely intelligent, but these women were so much more. The led lives that made them unique and were not just another Grace Lee

Grace Lee

As the filmmaker Grace Lee travels throughout The Grace Lee Project, she is determined to prove that not all women named Grace Lee (and by extension all Asian-American women) are the same, despite the 3.5 years of piano lessons and all the other coincidental similarities. Lee wants to deconstruct the stereotype of the Asian American woman--quiet, intelligent, nice, etc--and finds it frustrating that many of the Grace Lees she meets seem to fit that description perfectly. However, Lee herself admits that she doesn't really fit in with these other women, so her point is already proven when she starts, though she seems to think otherwise, particularly as she seems to voice disappointment that every Grace Lee she meets fits the stereotype. After some consideration, Lee decides that there are facets to each woman she talked to that set her apart from the women who share her name, just as there are facets to every Asian-American woman that distinguish her from the stereotypical "nice, quiet, petite, intelligent" girl that everyone describes, like the fourteen-year-old Grace Lee's violent art, Grace Lee Boggs' activism, and filmmaker Grace Lee's ambition in taking on this project. Lee's conclusion seems to be that while there are some uniting aspects to all Grace Lees (and Asian-American women), each is an individual who cannot be defined by her heritage alone.

The Grace Lee Project

With a cynical voice-over, Grace Lee, the documentary's creator, compares stereotypes for Asian American women and women with the name Grace Lee. Grace finds several of women who share her common name that also share common characteristics. Lee observes that they all match into a mold that is expected of them: average height, nationality, religion, age, etc. But through this process, she also finds that although on the outset the Grace Lee's may appear similar in statistics, there were interesting stories that separated these women drastically and made them incomparable and unique. Through her process of searching for other Grace Lee's, Grace was able to change her representation of her common name. She was able to take herself out of the Asian American stereotype perspective and hoped to influence her audience to do the same.

The Stereotypes we live by

The director, at the beginning of the film and throughout the story, explains the types of views and ideas that people always have about Grace Lee's. She chooses that name to symbolize all asian-american women, because it's her name and it is also very popular. Every description of a Grace Lee that he has heard or received have sounded alike: a quiet, shy, smart and nice girl. Is it possible that so many different women, just by merely sharing a name and possibly a heritage can be so alike. This is the impetus for Grace's (the director) project, to find all the Grace Lee's she can and learn about the stereotypes that are always connected to them, and whether their personalities actually fit in with the stereotypes.

Grace is bugged by the stereotypes that seem to follow her, because she is an asian woman. As she meets and talks to many Grace Lee's she has the chance to really get to meet many of these women. She finds some wome who are religious; some like to paint; some are proud, full-time mothers; some are activists. These women live in different parts of the country, even the world, and have different life stories. But everywhere the director goes, she finds the people around describing the Grace Lee's with the same characteristics: nice, smart, quiet, reserved.

Even the Grace Lees themselves used the same stereotypical terms to describe themselves. Many had trouble thinking of something that made them unique. The overarching message is that these women's lives are affected by stereotypes. Not only do the surrounding men and women have a stereotypical and generic view of Grace Lees. But this stereotype is so prevalent, and the cues from society so strong, that these women end up adopting many of those characteristics. It is a continuous cycle. Asian women are viewed within certain preconceived notions. But these same notions shape the experiences of these women.

Grace looks out into the world to test the strenght of this stereotype, and to also reach an acceptance of herself, since she felt she did not know where she fit into the world. She found women who were affected by their heritage and their gender, and the conceptions people have of those two groups. But she also found that these women were individuals, with different histories, different experiences. They were not the same as the director, so their name did not mean that they were closely bound together. The activist Grace did not think of herself as a woman or a an asian-american. She just was. There is a complexity in their lives. Though name, race and gender bring all these women together, it does not completely define them or confine them. The Grace Lees of the world can be anyone and anything, though the world does push them through certain expectations.

March 2, 2008

The Grace Lee Project

In The Grace Lee Project, Grace Lee (the filmmaker) establishes a documenting strategy that specifically revolves around a lack of assumption. Without knowing for certain whether or not the plethora of Grace Lees encountered throughout the road trip would be similar to each other because of their common label, Grace Lee's film argues that, in essence, a name is only a title and is therefore not an all-encompassing summary of a specific human condition. On the digital road, the only "assumptions" made are those of the film's basic framing: Asian American women named "Grace Lee" only. Beyond this essentially un-criticizable premise, the film's web-based "search" is simply a passive container--it makes no judgments. On the hard surface, this philosophy is taken to its logical end--the Grace Lees are allowed to tell their stories without active intervention or (manipulative) selective framing. Stereotypes are deconstructed precisely because the traditionally stereotyped are allowed to speak without a layer of expectations and inferences that stem from anonymous conjecture. The segment in which a son of a Grace Lee presents a filmed re-enactment of a scene from The Empire Strikes Back is particularly apt in that it revolves around the theme of identity--Darth Vader is revealed to be a human being; the "evil" enemy is shown to be the protagonist's father. "Darth Vader" is merely a title for, extending into the Star Wars series, the character of Anakin Skywalker--they are not really two different people simply because of a name change. A human being is not truly altered, is not predestined to be a certain way, because of their name alone. Grace Lee learns that a common name most certainly can signify shared traits, but also that it possesses no limiting binds on personality or self- creation.

Self Discovery

I found Grace Lee’s journey very interesting and inspiring. She went looking for the differences in Asian American women, specifically the Grace Lees, and found them. Although, all of the Grace Lees she found fit into the stereotyped mold of Asian American women, they each found some way to break out of it. These differences are what actually brought the Grace Lees together in the end of the film. The fact that they didn’t all fit the “quiet, nice, petite, small� stereotype that those who knew them described them as was what connected them across the country and the globe.

I think Grace Lee the filmmaker brought home with her the idea that it isn’t true that every single Grace Lee is the same stereotypical Asian American woman. That she doesn’t need to feel bad for yearning to be different. She also brought home a message about her identity as Grace Lee. She spoke about how she realized that it was okay for her to be unsure about herself and to have some flaws. These personal realizations are what the journey is all about.

Grace Lee=Individual

At first Grace is disillusioned, because each Grace she meets seems to be similar. They are passive, nice, over-achievers. Grace then feels that she is under-accomplished compared to these women and wonders why she is so different. As her documentary continues though, she encounters many unique women. By learning about the life of each woman, Grace is able to deconstruct the stereotype about Asian American women. She meets a woman who works to change communities and the lives of everyone in them. She meets a woman who has persevered through each hardship she faced and helped a family in need. She is a woman who inspires her own son and everyone who hears her story. She meets girls who know exactly who they are in life, what they believe in, and what they want to accomplish. She discovers that each Grace Lee is not the same. Each one has their own sense of self and sense of accomplishment. She brings home with her a sense of pride in her name. I hope she brought home her own sense of accomplishment, because by taping and sharing these women's stories, she is praising them and allowing others to become inspired.

Stereotype=Truths?

“Grace Lee� is not only a name but it acts, especially so in The Grace Lee Project, as an identity bound to many Asian American Women. In the film, everybody knew a Grace Lee, and they all carried the same ideas of what it means to be Grace Lee, even in the case of the more rebellious individuals carrying the name. Docile, quiet, intelligent.

The filmmaker Grace Lee was on a trip to discover what it means to be Grace Lee. She was determined to break a stereotype, or really to prove it wrong, to find that all Grace Lee’s are not the same. However, adverse to her intentions, Grace Lee found a strange dichotomy between stereotypes and truth. She found that while it certainly was true that all Grace Lee’s were not the same, she also found out that most Grace Lee’s shared similar characteristics that fed the stereotype.

While this discovery was not based solely on the name, Grace Lee made a connection between Asian Americans, first generation, and the reputations and personalities they acquire from that notion. That perhaps there is something to be said, the fact that many Asian American immigrants push their children to be successful because sacrifices have been made for their benefit that the characteristics of stereotypes exist.

When Grace Lee (filmmaker) interviews the other Grace Lee’s, she finds herself in awe at how much they seem to share, despite some drastic differences (i.e. Religion, sexual orientation, etc.). In the case of the

Asian-American lesbian activist living Asia, she was fierce and active in transcending the notion of docile individual by contrasting and fighting these ideas. However, she had an intense loyalty to her family, which in the end ended her activism and renounced her sexuality. This intense loyalty is a stereotype, but with truth? I think this is what Grace Lee discovers.

Asian American Stereotypes

Grace Lee set out to prove that all Grace Lee's are not the same. She interviewed people who knew a Grace Lee, and the majority of them said the same thing: "nice, smart, soft spoken," even the Grace Lee that tried to burn down her school was described this way. Grace Lee was trying to find the individuals in each of the Grace Lee's she contacted. Along the way, she found that the Grace Lee's had things in common, but they were definitely different women. They ranged from women who wanted to devote their lives to their beliefs to women who were really original (the Grace Lee from Detroit for example). Not only does Grace Lee break down the stereotype for being a Grace Lee, but the stereotypes for Asian Americans. As an Asian American myself, I was "victim" to many of the stereotypes. Granted, some of them are true about myself, I'm short, quite, I was in honors class in High School, I played the piano, and there are many other things too, but Grace Lee set out to prove that not all Asians are the same, and I agree with her. We have things in common, but in all reality, Asian parents just want their kids to do well. In a culture that values respect and intelligence, can we help it if our parents have similar thoughts. If you thing about it, American parents do the same thing, just in a different way. Americans value individuality, but the thing that American parents and Asian parents have in common is that they teach their children the value of respect.

Grace Lee or Grace Lee

Grace Lee uses the digital road to connect and show simple differences from people. Allowing people to come to her through her website and submit information about themselves begins to set up the framework that Grace Lee uses. But the road only deconstructs stereotypes fully when the road makes it to the hard surface. As Grace Lee makes her way on the road, she does find stereotypes represented within the Grace Lee's. She finds traits like musical talent, quiet demeanor, and intelligence, but she uses these stereotypes to begin to dissolve the relationships between the Grace Lee's. She shows that although some of these societal tropes exist, they are seen purely because of the stereotype. Grace Lee moves past these stereotypes and finds that it is not hard to look past these surfaces. Like an actual road that has miles and miles of the same lines and dashes and colors, if you look closer there are many differences. Grace Lee merges the two roads to make an effective portray of the Grace Lee's of the world, whether they fit a mold or not.

What's in a name?

Grace Lee uses her personal road trip in a different way than Angela Shelton. The documentary does not set out to cover such huge social issues as child abuse, but a more personal issue, the directors personal identity about who she is in a sea of typical Asian American women. She is setting out to identify separate herself from the thousands of perfect mannered, high acieving Grace Lee's out in the world. What she finds is that while on paper people named Grace Lee may sound like the typical Asian-American women sterotype, nice, friendly, quite, piano playing, they each have their own individual personalites and viewpoints. Some are great African-American activists, some enjoy drawing bloody pictures, and some are religious. I think that what the director Grace Lee brought back with her from the making of this documentary was a better sense of self. She realized that the streotypes aren't as constricting as she thought that they would be. There is leway and some license to be yourself, and you can still be a considered an Asian-American woman. Even if you took forever to marry your boyfriend and still aren't sure if you want to have children. The name Grace Lee doesn't mean that you are a perfect, piano-playing Asian-American daughter, you are yourself, whether your name is Grace Lee or not.


The search for Asian American womanhood is a project animating The Grace Lee Project. How does Grace Lee use her road trip (both digital and hard surface) to deconstruct stereotypes about Asian American women? What is she saying about “Grace Lees�? What does she bring home from her road trip? Be specific.

Grace Lee

In the movie, Grace Lee talks a lot about the Asian American stereotypes and even shows these women living the stereotypes. She even states that the Asian American women in the movie are the living stereotypes. I think Grace Lee starts to deconstruct the stereotypes towards the end of the movie when she shows that each Grace Lee has something unique (a freckle, a mole, a hobby, a certain type of personality, etc.) that helps them break away from the stereotype. The fimmaker finds this out by going on their life journey, asking questions and visiting each Grace Lee in their own surroundings. I think the filmmaker is saying that each Grace Lee may be linked because of their name and ethnicity, but deep down each of them has something that is unique, something no other Grace Lee has. Grace Lee, the filmmaker, brought home the idea that stereotypes can classify you but it is somebody's unique quality that sets them apart. This makes each individual who they are.

"Not 'that' Grace Lee"

In her film, The Grace Lee Project, filmmaker Grace Lee goes on a journey to find other Grace Lees in the US (specifically California) and even globally, as evident in the inclusion of a lesbian Grace Lee in Korea, to find out what makes them and herself unique from all of the other Grace Lees. By making contact with these women, both online and in person, the film maker begins to get an idea of what all of these women seemingly have in common: smart, quiet, passive, nice, etc. These are all qualities that are seen as stereotypical of Asian women. But another commonality of these women are that many of the women interviewed believe themselves to not actually personify these qualities; they instead see them as something that the other Grace Lees possess.

Grace Lee the film maker goes in search of the women that are the anomalies to these stereotypes. Most of the time when she finds these women (the girl who tries to set her school on fire, the lesbian activist) she is later let down to find out that they really do seem to fit the stereotypes (the high school student was embarrassed about her academic record; the lesbian later renounces her sexuality and requests to be excluded from the film to protect her family). Although these two women do seem to only reinforce the Asian women stereotypes, I believe that they exhibit unstereotypical characteristics of Asian women. In both of their cases, it took them strength, initiative, and courage to do what they did, particularly in the case of the lesbian for coming out and being such an activist. These characteristics are hardly ever attributed to Asian women, so I believe that they help break down such stereotypes and may give the film maker a greater belief that not all Grace Lees are the same.

What's in a name?

I found The Grace Lee Project very interesting, as a search for identity through names and associated stereotypes. Before we watched the movie, I actually had no clue this was such a common name amongst Asian Americans. Up here in Minnesota, a lot of the Koreans I have met whom have common names are like Kim Lee or Joe Kim. But I suppose that, had I lived in Calfornia, with its larger Asian American population, I would have known that.

It was interesting how, after she began her digital interactions with other Grace Lees, she was able to construct a common stereoptype of Grace Lees, like how she is 5'3" and born in America from immigrant parents. Even the Grace Lee that seemingly was the biggest moldbreaker, the one who set her high school on fire, sounded like she fit the mold of otherwise nice and very smart. I think that the older Grace Lee from Detriot seemed to not fit the stereotype of other Grace Lees, and in the biggest way I think, was that she was very head strong and did what she wanted and felt was right, like fighting for the rights of African Americans and inner city youth. The fact that she is a very strong woman goes against the typical Asian female stereotype of being quiet, passive, and in the background. I related to Grace Lee the filmmaker of the documentary, because I do not feel like I fit the typical Asian American female mold. When she asked people on the street what they think when they think of Asian females, common responses were "quiet, shy, very studious, really petite"; in Grace's words "aren't these all words for passive?" Although I am petite and physically a "typical" Asian, I do not want to think I am passive, quiet, or shy. I am outspoken like Detriot Grace Lee, I am definately NOT soft-spoken, and although I am a hard worker, I myself feel, like filmmaker Grace Lee, that I do not feel like an over-achiever who always has known what she was going to be. Through the handful of Grace Lees she meets, she lets them tell their stories and gives them a voice amongst all the other Asian Americans and amongst all the other Grace Lees out there. There may be a lot of similarities between the women, but they are coincidental, each of these Grace Lees are different and unique.

One common thread I found in this film, was that there wasn't a lot of direct, obvious suffering, like The Angela Shelton focused on, but there was a lot of emotional suffering and stress due to one common Asian stereotype, which is the parents put immense pressure on their children to succeed. You saw that in the reason one Grace Lee set her school on fire, in the younger Grace Lee who used "dark art" to express her frustration with pressure from her dad, and in the lesbian Grace Lee from Korea who later withdrew consent to be shown in the movie, out of respect for her parents. One Grace Lee was indeed physically abused when she was younger, but a common thread was more emotional distress from parental pressure. In my experiences with other Asian Americans, parents who immigrate here put a lot of pressure on their children to succeed, because that is the exact reason why they came here in the first place; yet the children want to be able to find their own voice. It's hard to be an Asian American, because you want to keep in touch with your Asian heritage, yet you want to be a mainstream American as well. I feel like those two conflicts showed up in quite a few of the Grace Lees.

I think that, after her journey, she found that Grace Lee as a name might seem like it defines a person, but what truly defines someone can come from the same source of their name: their family and background can affect how you develop and grow, whether that be as a "PK", or a nurse, or a helping hand to someone who has been abused, or a filmmaker from California.

March 1, 2008

Every Grace Lee is Unique

I found the film The Grace Project really interesting. First of all, when I first heard the name Grace Lee, the image of an Asian American never popped into my head. I actually thought of your typical American white girl, so it was interesting to find out that this entire film was about deconstructing the stereotypes of Asian Americans, since all of the women in the film named Grace Lee were of that ethnicity. I think that she tried to change peoples minds about Asian American stereotypes by talking to the different Grace Lee's. For example, the 80 something Grace Lee definately was not your typical Asian American because she was an activist for African Americans. I am not saying that Asians do not support African Americans but it is not often that you see the two working together since both groups face difficulties in American culture. Also, by talking to the two Christian women she was reversing stereotypes since many people believe that Asians are only apart of the Eastern religions and they were prime examples of Western religious followers. I think that her main message about Grace Lee's and Asian American women in general is that there are similarities between these women, but yet each one is unique in their own way. She demonstrated this idea at the end of her film when she had each women state what made them different, some said their careers others there appearances. My favorite line was from a younger Grace Lee who mentioned the mole on her face. I feel that at the end of the film she realized something about herself. She understood that she is not going to be the smartest or most successful Grace Lee in America, but she is unique and she will bring something to this country that no other Grace Lee ever has or ever will.

The Grace Lee Project

Grace Lee uses Asian American women and gives them a voice to deconstruct the prejudice and stereotypes brought against them by American society. She gives these women a chance to talk about who they are, what they are like, and who they want to be. She shows that most of these women were perceived in the exact same way and given the exact same traits by the people who knew them. They were supposed to be smart, quiet, well mannered, musical, and were supposed to have a bright, prosperous future in front of them. Grace Lee breaks down these stereotypes by showing Asian American women, named Grace Lee, who were different from this mold, namely herself. By the end of the film she wanted us to leave the film thinking that just because a person has a specific name, or a specific ethnicity, doesn't mean that they are all the same and that they all fit the mold that has been made for them. She wants us to know that it is more important to know yourself and be happy with who you are then to be someone you are not. She let us know that a name is just a name and it doesn't define who you are and who you are going to be.

Finding Grace Lee (the real one)

Grace Lee the film maker sets out to find out what's really in a name, specifically the name Grace Lee. The overwhelming majority of people she encounters who have known a Grace Lee all describe the same prototypical woman...Asian, petite, soft spoken, intelligent, nice. Thus Grace, the film maker, wonders, is ones name destined to shape ones personality? Are all Grace Lee's made to fit this Asian American woman mold? While many of the Grace Lee's she meets on the road fit the typical Grace Lee description they are also so much more. Each Grace Lee is influential and unique in her own way, from spreading and sharing christianity to risking her life for a friend. The road allows her to meet these women, who on the surface come off soft spoken and nice, but meeting them in person and hearing their stories enables a deeper understanding and respect for the Grace Lee's of the country. For example, Grace Lee Boggs, most definitely Asian, petite, nice, and intelligent, excels so far beyond these binding characteristics in her political activism and dedication to her community. Thus while on the road, the original Grace Lee facilitates the deconstruction of Asian American women as only fitting one profile. She illustrates that Grace Lee's break the mold everyday, but that they also have a lot in common, yet this is a positive thing. She likes this similarity, there is no longer a fear of being compared with other Grace Lee's; in essence she set out to defy a stereotype of Asian American Women and in doing so found out more about herself, as well as pride and comfort in being a Grace Lee.

Finding Grace Lee

How powerful can a name be?

Grace Lee, Los Angeles film maker goes in a total direction than most of us would`ve expected and shares with the public new bounderies about Asian American women. When asked about how the perceive Asisan American women, the majority of people described them as: quiet, nice, shy, soft spoken... By doing this project, Grace Lee is showing the world that some of those stereotypes are not always true.

People that new at least one "Grace Lee'" would often say that they were very intelligent or smart, nice or quiet, energetic.. but the part that intrigued Grace Lee (film maker) is that none of those people kept in touch with those " Grace Lees" or knew what they`ve become. " How can all the Grace Lees be so impressive and so unforgetable at the same time?' Grace Lee, L.A.

Although we`ve seen a variety of "Grace Lees" being interviewed, we`ve noticed that almost all of them were very ambitious and active in their communities. There was activist Grace Lee, pastor wife Grace Lee, youth minister Grace Lee and so on.. It is also very amazing how 40 percent of the "Grace Lees" were named for a religious purpose; and a good other number was named after actress Grace Kelly who probably inspired the lives of their ( Grace Lees) mothers.

I guess all of those women`s stories helped Grace Lee of California know a little more about women who shared the exact name with her; but also to let Asian women define themselves. That is also what seperates her from Angela Shelton who was more focused on a same group of women who almost had the same past.

What or Who is "Grace Lee"?

The search for Asian American womanhood is a project animating The Grace Lee Project. How does Grace Lee use her road trip (both digital and hard surface) to deconstruct stereotypes about Asian American women? What is she saying about “Grace Lees�? What does she bring home from her road trip? Be specific.